Private jumbo jet sold for scrap after just 30 hours in the air

[red750]

A privately owned Boeing 747 jumbo jet is being sold for scrap after just 30 hours in the air over a total of 16 flights.

 

The aircraft, which was configured as a private VIP jet intended for a member of the Saudi royal family, remained on the tarmac for almost 10 years at EuroAirport Basel Mulhouse Freiburg, at the border between France, Switzerland and Germany.

 

More here.

[spacesailor]

I read that it was a present for the prince . Who suddenly died . His parents didn't know what to do with it .

SO !, Off to the knacker y .

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Your ripped-off Petrodollars at work. One hopes that one day, the Saudis will be brought back to a wealth level with other countries and people, instead of just splashing money around like confetti at a wedding.

If they had done the right thing with their wealth, no-one in their country would be in need of anything required for a comfortable life.

[facthunter]

Similar to many countries. More wealth concentrated in the top couple of %. It's not "politics of envy" to report  facts. Wealth makes wealth  and buys influence. It's self perpetuating.  Nev

[Bruce Tuncks]

We need to reduce inequality , there is research around now to show that it costs a country about 5% of gdp to maintain a level of inequality like we have now in Australia....   and there would be a lot more inequality  in Saudi Arabia than here.

[skippydiesel]

How is that a virtually new airframe can not be utilised/converted for some other aviation purpose? (other than spare parts & recycled aluminium)

Edited February 26, 2023 by skippydiesel

[onetrack]

Because the hourly operating cost of the B747, with 4 engines, is much higher than a 2 engine jet, such as a B777 - with no major gain in payload for the B747.

4 engine jets are a liability in commercial operations today, since the reliability of todays jet engines is such that major trans-ocean flights can be done with ease with 2 engine jets, with no fear of crashing, even if 1 engine fails halfway through the flight.

[facthunter]

When the 747 was made the concessions for twin engined planes were not in force. The engine out situation is NOT the  same though however one tries to portray it. Shutting down one in cruise requires diversion to the nearest suitable landing place. On a four engined plane no such requirement exists. . You will have to revise your eta's and also descend but not as far as with a twin and IF ATC says XYZ , are your OPS normal you can rely  affirmative IF you satisfy all fuel requirements etc. Naturally you will take longer but use less fuel most likely.. Its never NORMAL when on only ONE engine when you started off with more.  Nev

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

We need to reduce inequality , there is research around now to show that it costs a country about 5% of gdp to maintain a level of inequality like we have now in Australia....   and there would be a lot more inequality  in Saudi Arabia than here.

The simplest way to stop inequality is to get rid of inherited wealth. Nothing is less capitalistic than inherited wealth as it involves gifting money to people based upon an accident of birth rather than the accumulation of capital based on ability.

I suspect that there would be many more programs aimed towards innovation and wealth creation if this were the case rather than programs designed to enhance the status quo.

That being said death taxes have always been unpopular.

1 hour ago, onetrack said:

with no fear of crashing, even if 1 engine fails halfway through the flight.

I have occasionally wondered if a 3 or 4 engined plane would have been forced to ditch given the same circumstances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549

[facthunter]

If a 4 engined plane lost all four engines it would glide like a 2 engined plane that lost both engines. The FAA tried to assert Sully COULD have made it back to the airport and used questionable selected criteria to make that case.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

4 hours ago, onetrack said:

Because the hourly operating cost of the B747, with 4 engines, is much higher than a 2 engine jet, such as a B777 - with no major gain in payload for the B747.

4 engine jets are a liability in commercial operations today, since the reliability of todays jet engines is such that major trans-ocean flights can be done with ease with 2 engine jets, with no fear of crashing, even if 1 engine fails halfway through the flight.

Re powered with the latest engines or even modifying to 2 large engines, would not this aircraft be competitive?

[onetrack]

I guess there could be an argument put forward for re-engining with the latest engines. But the bottom line is the aircraft also needs to be gutted and the internal areas rebuilt for whatever one planned to do with it.

That cost alone is a major cost.

 

Although I must say I'm a little surprised that Coulsons didn't look at the aircraft for a jumbo fire tanker. At US$95M for a virtually new aircraft, the purchase cost would only be a little more than the value of the engines (reported to be US$80M).

The B747 Fire SuperTanker that was put into service by Evergreen between about 2009 and 2013 appeared to be very effective.

 

However, Evergreen fell into bankrupcty, the B747 Fire Supertanker was then taken over by Global SuperTanker Services - who then went into bankrupcty in 2021 - and the Fire SuperTanker was then purchased by National Airlines to be converted into a cargo aircraft. Why anyone would spend a heap of money converting the 1971 model Fire SuperTanker into a cargo aircraft is a mystery to me - particularly when this new B747 aircraft was available.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/747_Supertanker

[Ian]

17 hours ago, facthunter said:

If a 4 engined plane lost all four engines it would glide like a 2 engined plane that lost both engines. The FAA tried to assert Sully COULD have made it back to the airport and used questionable selected criteria to make that case.  Nev

What I was alluding to is that the likelihood of losing all engines in a single birdstrike incident is far less likely. Unlike volcanic ash which is more of an environmental issue.

15 hours ago, onetrack said:

Why anyone would spend a heap of money converting the 1971 model Fire SuperTanker into a cargo aircraft is a mystery to me

There was a shortage of air freight capacity during the pandemic. My understanding was that freight was generally a secondary load type after passengers, less passengars = less freight. 

 

 

[johnm]

18 hours ago, facthunter said:

If a 4 engined plane lost all four engines it would glide like a 2 engined plane that lost both engines. The FAA tried to assert Sully COULD have made it back to the airport and used questionable selected criteria to make that case.  Nev

 

that's ridiculous - the 4 engined plane would glide twice as far as the 2 engined plane - its got twice as many engines - do themath

[Bruce Tuncks]

I think I read that the 747 had a max glide angle of 17 to 1. This is a lot better than the Jabiru which has 12 to 1 but not as good as a 15m glider which has about 40 to 1. Some open-class gliders are approaching 60 to 1!

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

the earth curves down at 2/3 ft per mile , which is about 6000 to 1. So it's not true that a 60 to 1 glide angle is better than the earth's curvature.

[facthunter]

Most will glide 100 NM from FL310 at flight idle which is pretty low thrust. Pretty good L/D figures.  nev

[onetrack]

100 NM glide isn't going to do much for you, when you have 2000 miles of ocean in each direction! It really is a credit to modern jet engine design that no trans-Atlantic, trans-Pacific, or trans-Indian Ocean commercial flight has ever had to ditch in the open sea. I often wondered about how a rescue would be effected if that ever happened. The distance out to the search area for MH370, well West of the SW of W.A. was a stretch for many of the search aircraft involved.

[facthunter]

Those sorts of aircraft can only land on prepared runways really and depending on the nature of some of the failure modes that is sometimes not a certainty either. There's a lot of  "REDUNDANCY" in some aircraft like a B 727.  Once airborne it could manage to stay there on ONE engine at about 9,000 feet amsl  and manual reversion on the flight controls. It's extremely heavy on the controls but possible. Alternate methods of extending flaps and gear.  Nev

[Marty_d]

8 hours ago, Bruce Tuncks said:

the earth curves down at 2/3 ft per mile , which is about 6000 to 1. So it's not true that a 60 to 1 glide angle is better than the earth's curvature.

If you ever glide at the same rate as the earth's curvature, your glide angle is 0.

[onetrack]

And you'll be stuck up there forever!

[facthunter]

It's unlikely. You need to achieve about 22,000 mph to orbit.   Nev

[Marty_d]

...or you're a Chinese balloon... oh, wait.

[bexrbetter]

On 26/02/2023 at 10:29 AM, Ian said:

The simplest way to stop inequality is to ...

 

...... educate kids properly early in the truth of banking and economics, how to run a business, etc etc, eg; all that IS NOT taught in schools.

 

What is taught is how to be a worker ant for the oft mentioned "1%", and feel good about it.

 

[Area-51]

On 27/02/2023 at 7:50 AM, johnm said:

 

that's ridiculous - the 4 engined plane would glide twice as far as the 2 engined plane - its got twice as many engines - do themath

I agree, prehistoric cave scratchings found in the French Alps and deciphered by experts during the sexual revolution of the 1960's verify without any doubt a 4 engine aircraft equals 1/2 the weight and double MTOW of an equivalent sized 2 engine aircraft... The 4 engine aircraft also has the greater surface ricochet Per'bing Factor. 🤔🤔 I think that's how it all works... W&B complete, cabin crew arm and cross check doors 😂😂😂