Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 BTW people I was again speaking with one of the Ex board members this morning and I asked if he had been innundated with phone calls.............embarrasingly he advised that he'd had 5 calls.....yep I said 5............so to those that show concern and frustration that you dont have the details.......WTF are you doing asking those questions here and then NOT ringing and discussing with the people who can tell you straight as to what the issue is!!!!! please this is all waffle and hearsay on here at present......but the answer as to how you get it turned into FACT that you can believe has been said so many times..... pick up the phone and ring.... BTW it was suggested that Bill Cain is overseas at present. If he has his mobile he may be unhappy that you ring at his 1am in the morning, or that when global roaming he gets to pay global roaming rates for the phone call which in many cases could bankrupt a small 3rd world country..... so maybe there is a better option to use email in his case...... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 BTW people I was again speaking with one of the Ex board members this morning and I asked if he had been innundated with phone calls.............embarrasingly he advised that he'd had 5 calls.....yep I said 5............so to those that show concern and frustration that you dont have the details.......WTF are you doing asking those questions here and then NOT ringing and discussing with the people who can tell you straight as to what the issue is!!!!!please this is all waffle and hearsay on here at present......but the answer as to how you get it turned into FACT that you can believe has been said so many times..... pick up the phone and ring.... BTW it was suggested that Bill Cain is overseas at present. If he has his mobile he may be unhappy that you ring at his 1am in the morning, or that when global roaming he gets to pay global roaming rates for the phone call which in many cases could bankrupt a small 3rd world country..... so maybe there is a better option to use email in his case...... Andy For the record........I spoke with a board member, and am still none the wiser......"confidentiality" and that. ie: same as this forum, lots of noise, but no imformation forthcoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Try another board member. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 For the record........I spoke with a board member, and am still none the wiser......"confidentiality" and that. ie: same as this forum, lots of noise, but no imformation forthcoming. Why didn't you demand he gave you the answers ... he represents you doesn't he, not the other way aroumd. Try another board member. Nev Well said Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 BTW people I was again speaking with one of the Ex board members this morning and I asked if he had been innundated with phone calls.............embarrasingly he advised that he'd had 5 calls.....yep I said 5............so to those that show concern and frustration that you dont have the details.......WTF are you doing asking those questions here and then NOT ringing and discussing with the people who can tell you straight as to what the issue is!!!!!please this is all waffle and hearsay on here at present......but the answer as to how you get it turned into FACT that you can believe has been said so many times..... pick up the phone and ring.... BTW it was suggested that Bill Cain is overseas at present. If he has his mobile he may be unhappy that you ring at his 1am in the morning, or that when global roaming he gets to pay global roaming rates for the phone call which in many cases could bankrupt a small 3rd world country..... so maybe there is a better option to use email in his case...... Andy Sometimes the easiest course is an e-mail. It can be better nuanced and leaves Bill and Don the time to consider the sort of personal press release that they might send out in response to the emails they get. Issues in the past have been about balance of power and the acceptance of responsibility by individual board members. Some of this boiled over last year at the members meeting at Temora over a few issues, in some of the resignations (and not renominating) and appears to have boiled over again. While board training and experience are highly desirable getting it via the standard company directors courses or through a stock exchange listed company board isn't necessarily the best grounding for organisations like RA-Aus as we don't have paid directors and we don't have a profit motive. RA-Aus is a MEMBER BASED, ADVOCACY organisation and this is the cloud that our directors should consider themselves operating in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Well they certainly seem to be operating in cloud at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 16, 2012 Share Posted May 16, 2012 Don't think Darky would be seen in a smokey and noisy old 707, she'd have at least an A320 parked at a more exotic location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Plus charge you $300.00 for taking the phone call where you asked why the bill was so high. And, come Christmas time, they add up the cost of the Christmas card, postage, adminstration time and other related overheads and place this on your account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 It appears we have run out of garbage to post, perhaps everyone has actually spoken to their board members and discovered its not the end of the world, as for me the issues with my aircraft seem to be sorted VH EXPERIMENTAL means I will get to fly my plane after all, luckily I have that option . I would like to say the new tech manager seems like a very helpful fella , hopefully he will do the right thing by us all. Plenty of garbage I could post, but doing so wouldn't solve the underlying issues. Some things have yet to play out, for better or worse and after that l believe some more info will come out. Until then, there's little that can be done by ordinary members, but there will come a time where everyone will need to stand up and be counted. Good to hear about your aircraft and the new Tech Manager. Sounds like he has his work cut out for him, and maybe there should also be an Assistant Tech Manager to cover the workload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 It appears we have run out of garbage to post, perhaps everyone has actually spoken to their board members and discovered its not the end of the world, as for me the issues with my aircraft seem to be sorted VH EXPERIMENTAL means I will get to fly my plane after all, luckily I have that option . I would like to say the new tech manager seems like a very helpful fella , hopefully he will do the right thing by us all. Matty, Matty, Matty ... I wonder what specific garbage you are referring to ma boy!!!!! Have a couple of Directors done a snow job on you have they !!! Remember snow eventually melts ... and I know what is under the snow and it ain't pretty. So Don and Bill resigned for trivial reasons ... You think!!! And there will be more to follow. I have just boarded a flight to Syd from Perth, I'll elaborate when I land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 The suspense is just killing me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 VH Experimental is an exit strategy from the RAA, is it difficult to register an RAA plane as VH Exp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 17, 2012 Share Posted May 17, 2012 Think that would vary from"Yes, to maybe to forget it" over the spectrum of RAAus planes. Mostly it's warbirds or anything that has been modified outside of the original manufactureres CERTIFICATION. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Matty, Matty, Matty ... I wonder what specific garbage you are referring to ma boy!!!!! Have a couple of Directors done a snow job on you have they !!! Remember snow eventually melts ... and I know what is under the snow and it ain't pretty. So Don and Bill resigned for trivial reasons ... You think!!! And there will be more to follow.I have just boarded a flight to Syd from Perth, I'll elaborate when I land. ...... waiting ...... waiting ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 There is so much involved in all this and David and I have compared notes and I can confirm what he is saying from my sources...plus there is more. I really wish I could "spill the beans" but I feel I can't, at this point in time however I stand by what I have said...Runciman and Tizzard need to remove themselves from RAAus to give RAAus a chance to be "seen" as being "able" to rebuild...The only other way I think would be for the entire board to step aside as the damage has been done and even if they do get out of this, I believe it will only be a matter of time before something else major happens. We have seen many things happen under the Runciman/Tizzard watch (freedoms removed on young upcoming pilots - reinstated again - removed again, worst audit ever, mass groundings, insurances, legal, board members resigning etc - to name just a few) and there is the knowledge that Tizzard has sent private in-house RAAus communications on to CASA, legal actions threatened/commenced against members without the board knowing...it just goes on and on and on. It's YOUR Association and we have seen that in the last 9 months you have never before been kept in so much darkness...however one day everything, I hope, will come out and you will see the actions of those that YOU voted in to represent you. PLEASE, think very carefully when voting for your representatives on the board this year, do your due diligence and PLEASE don't just take a "She'll be right" attitude because this attitude may be responsible for you waking up one day and find you can't fly because you have been grounded or for some other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Must say i am now a bit more on top of it than earlier though i am sure that more lurks in the background. Replies i have had from board members that did reply. One carefully constructed in typical 'Canberrian' Both thanked me for my concern and don't worry. With one telling me he is not in it for the money. WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest davidh10 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I chose to phone, figuring the person may be more forthcoming verbally, than in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 ...... waiting ...... waiting ....... Mate, be patient. He flies a trike - Perth to Sydney, work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 He should have a tailwind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pudestcon Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 He should have a tailwind. He does talk a lot of hot air:roflmao: Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 There is so much involved in all this and David and I have compared notes and I can confirm what he is saying from my sources...plus there is more.I really wish I could "spill the beans" but I feel I can't, at this point in time however I stand by what I have said...Runciman and Tizzard need to remove themselves from RAAus to give RAAus a chance to be "seen" as being "able" to rebuild...The only other way I think would be for the entire board to step aside as the damage has been done and even if they do get out of this, I believe it will only be a matter of time before something else major happens. We have seen many things happen under the Runciman/Tizzard watch (freedoms removed on young upcoming pilots - reinstated again - removed again, worst audit ever, mass groundings, insurances, legal, board members resigning etc - to name just a few) and there is the knowledge that Tizzard has sent private in-house RAAus communications on to CASA, legal actions threatened/commenced against members without the board knowing...it just goes on and on and on. It's YOUR Association and we have seen that in the last 9 months you have never before been kept in so much darkness...however one day everything, I hope, will come out and you will see the actions of those that YOU voted in to represent you. PLEASE, think very carefully when voting for your representatives on the board this year, do your due diligence and PLEASE don't just take a "She'll be right" attitude because this attitude may be responsible for you waking up one day and find you can't fly because you have been grounded or for some other reason. Some of the legal stuff that is happening predated the existing executive by many years so I think it would be unfair for a reader to conclude there is a cause and effect link between the two. I also think " legal actions threatened/commenced against members without the board knowing" could be missinterpreted where I believe it could be more accurately writen as " legal actions threatened against members......(Ive left the rest of the sentence off becuase i personally have no knowledge as to when the board knew or didnt know)" My assumption is that by /commenced you mean RAA exec instructed their lawfirm to prepare a formal statement of claim in effect starting the lawyers cashometer ticking over, which to me is very differnt to the asking for the standard "Death and devestation on you and your descendants" solicitors letter...which by its nature seeks to intimidate.... With regard to the broader post Ian I dont know all the details, but I feel that an uniformed reader could conclude something other than what you probably intended which would no doubt not be the outcome you were seeking. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted May 18, 2012 Author Share Posted May 18, 2012 So Andy, give us the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Nope David ,no snow job,,,I hope but rather I have an understanding of a few issues and although they're not great it seems like throwing wild accusations around and innuendo won't solve stuff, I look forward to more info from you and hopefully a bit of light at the end of the tunnel.As for getting VH exp reg for my plane if it works out for me it'll solve a huge headache caused by the previous tech manager and it'll mean the $35K plus that I've put into this aircraft won't be money down the drain, which is where it was yesterday morning. I agree, wild accusations and innuendo are destructive in nature particularly where they are mischievous and constructively misleading. The problem is that where the issues are serious enough for Bill Cain and Don Ramsey to resign (and they have made their position clear to the remaining Board), I would suggest to then trivialise the issues or censor the issues from the membership is tantamount to misleading the shareholders in a corporation and effectively 'enables' continuing poor performance of both the Board and staff. The problem in my humble opinion is that the Board appears to lack resolve and appears to show signs of nepotism (appearing to protect the old boys club) rather than act professionally in a proper corporate manner for an organisation of 10,00 plus members and several million in revenues. Another problem is that a number of directors appear to have either spent most of their careers in the public service, CASA or the defense forces and run the organization in that manner where they operate allocated funds made available and to a significant extent are protected by the 'Crown' or at least very deep pockets. (Who in their right mind would take CASA on on the courts; I know a few that have and have regretted the day). Some Directors have small business experience which can be vastly different to corporate accountability and performance measures. Then when we finally get a couple of experienced large company directors on the Board, the Board appears to lack the resolve to act appropriately to their collective advice of the corporate experience. Add to that our current constitution which effectively has a flat management system of two tiers, the 10,000 members and 13 Board members and you have recipe for dysfunction for a National organisation of our size. Ask yourselves ... what platform do the members really have ... all they have is a phone call or email to the Board members. There is no member interaction at all except on forum sites like this one and we know there are many that will not post on this site as a result of history. The RA Aus Board hasn't made a forum available for the members even though they appropriately have one for themselves. The magazine is unsuitable as a forum because you have no guarantee of freedom of speech or transparency and the monthly cycles are too far apart. If we are to survive in a prosperous manner we seriously need to restructure. The problem is we are in a classic 'gotcha' situation ... we need reform to get the communication and interaction of the members that is necessary to get the reform we need. I have to ask when are the RA Aus directors going to act in a manner accountable to the members and hold the RA Aus staff accountable to the Board. To hide behind confidentiality on the basis that the particular matter is to be 'kept' from the members is unconscionable, unprofessional and I would suggest illegal (if you can be bothered to test the case in an administrative tribunal). If there are no problems as Matt appears to have been told by a Director who is not named; why were the '24' registered Super Petrels, the '24' registered Speed 2000s, the '24' registered Morgan Sierras and the '24' registered Fisher Drifters all grounded and the Sting had a weight certification issue. All these aircraft had Certificate of airworthiness issues discovered following the CASA audit, all unfortunately as a result of the performance of the Tech manager. Have a think for a minute that all of these aircraft (except the Fisher Drifter and Morgan Sierra) have recently been involved in fatalities ... the Morgan of course involved in the highly publicised Ferris Wheel incident at Old Bar. Think about potential liability issues here to RA Aus ... think about whether we have enough PI insurance to protect the organisation. (I know my PI insurers watch my performance and base renewal on my competency). Then add to that the handling of the Junior member issues by the CEO allegedly in direct conflict with a Board instruction and then the fact that the CEO engaged lawyers to threaten legal action against Ian Baker for alleged defamation of the CEO on Ian Bakers website, such action by the CEO without Board approval potentially exposing the RA Aus to additional legal costs. Ask yourself how could all this happen? Then ask yourself how the Board could in anyone's professional opinion approve a salary increase for the CEO when some of this happened under his watch. There are issues that could potentially arise from some of this that exposes the directors personally to potential liability. Under these circumstances I would NOT be staying on as a director either. I wish to express my firm desire to see these issues resolved. Just changing the Board and CEO will not change anything in the longer term unless we get some accountability structure into our organisation where the members have a more effective means of communication to the Board, where the Board sets policy and the CEO lives or dies on his accountability to the Board and the performance of his staff. If you think I am being unreasonable, I apologise in advance for giving that impression, that is not my intention, I want to see RA Aus survive and go on to be a successful organisation that can eventually be bench marked as a model. I firmly and humbly believe that cannot happen under the current association structure. The problem I face is should this be said in this forum? Or ... should it all just be kept quiet and hope the problems go away ???? Its your organisation ... what do you think ... Do you still regard this as rumour and innuendo? Edit: correction following Andy's point below and to be entirely accurate. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 So Andy, give us the facts. So again, the issue I have is if I put forward what I know its second hand as a result of talking to board and ex board members and 3rd hand as a result of a bunch of PM's and seperate emails. Im sure we all as kids played the wisper game where someone starts and after a dozen wispers we get teh starting person to tells us what they said and the last person to tell us what they heard and we all marvell at how different they are..... If I tell what I know its then 3rd and 4th hand when you can talk to the same people I did, and get the same story I did...... Its exactly why I worry that peoples understanding of what Ian wrote will be different to what he intended. In fact if Im right David has perpetuated the issue. David you wrote that Legal proceedings were commenced, when Ian wrote Threatened/Commenced and I believe on what I know that the truth (and I only got told first hand) is just threatened. Is there a difference??? well I may be pedantic but in my opinion they are vastly different and from a risk to the organisation perspective, and a "has the CEO gone outside his mandate" perspective then IMHO they are very different. Am I saying that "and therefore its all OK" hell no...but lets not trample over the facts...... Am I saying you guys are intentionally distorting the truth...probably not, but I cant tell whats in your mind but I do take at face value that you both want the best outcome..... Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 He does talk a lot of hot air:roflmao:Pud And have you seen those ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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