i_like_planes_too Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 :( http://m.smh.com.au/nsw/wollongong-helicopter-crash-kills-four-20130321-2ghdf.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Another one. Soft accident and post crash fire, killing a child this time and others. Robinson can go take a long walk off a short pier. THEY know about this problem. every single bloody R44 needs to be grounded and the fuel tank mod performed. Bloddy death traps.. I spoke to an operator only a few weeks ago about the mod. He said 'pft, you just have to keep them upright and you dont have a problem'. If you are operating an R44 with out the tank mods done, dont you bloody well dare take a passenger with you. How many more deaths will it take.. !!!!!! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_like_planes_too Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Without that mod they have no fighting chance! It's so sad to see another one down. Yes, they need to be grounded and made unserviceable until that mod is done but when will they realise that? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Today. Now theres a dead kid. Im so angry right now, I can hardly breathe. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sobering, we just came back from a mates wedding in the Hunter where the wedding party flew in by 2x R44's. Thoughts go to all the families, could not imagine what they must be going through at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I have to add to this. I am pretty annoyed. How many post crash fires in R44s have there been over the last two years in this country alone? 4 0r 5. how many dead? 8 or so? CASA, it is of my opinion that you are a collective bunch of idiots!! Over the Christmas period many RAAus members were unnecessarily grounded for the want of o photo of a placard. Nothing to do with safety nothing to do with a products history at killing people just a blanket grounding AND YET here we have a situation of repeat fatalities involving a poorly designed product that are still allowed to fly until the owner 'gets around' to fitting the fuel tank bladders. So CASA please explain and SHOW CAUSE why these people died today. Ground all R44s until they have the problem fixed. Tired of reading about people dieing. Coroner and lawyers are going to have a field day with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Too right oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 None the less a complete tragedy; reports of the child on-board were wrong. I would also like to know if this tank mod had been carried out on this aircraft, those details are yet to be determined. Being endorsed on 44's (though not current) even more concerning for me.... if that be possible, sad day yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 its also hard to understand how aviation insurance companies tolerate this R44 situation ......... as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilotdave69 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Latest report stating no child died, joyride for lunch at Panorama house from Bankstown. police stating early reports clipped trees on approach! http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/four-dead-in-helicopter-crash-near-bulli-tops-south-of-sydney/story-e6frfkp9-1226602418005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 But to play devils advocate, last time I was talking about this with a R44 owner it was not possible get hold of the bladders for retrofitting. They were not actually available due to limited numbers being made. There is a time frame by which the fitting has to be done but since there isn't a source of the part required that time frame has been extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignition Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 But to play devils advocate, last time I was talking about this with a R44 owner it was not possible get hold of the bladders for retrofitting. They were not actually available due to limited numbers being made.There is a time frame by which the fitting has to be done but since there isn't a source of the part required that time frame has been extended. Well then, Robinson (or CASA for that matter) should ground the affected aircraft effective immediately and make the bladders available in large numbers so that every owner will be able to complete the mod. It is completely Robinson's responsibility and the blood on their hands is getting thicker. Not good enough. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Well then, Robinson (or CASA for that matter) should ground the affected aircraft effective immediately and make the bladders available in large numbers so that every owner will be able to complete the mod. It is completely Robinson's responsibility and the blood on their hands is getting thicker. Not good enough. Correct, grounding is the normal industry safe practice. Hopefully this one will bring a manslaughter charge, and people will start to get serious about safety again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 If the incidents of ruptured fuel tanks and fire can be reduced or eliminated then that is good but it is not a malady isolated to R44's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriya Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Good points raised by others here. Personally, even prior to todays accident I had decided not to fly in a R44 without 1st enquiring whether the fuel tank mod had been done based on the poor accident history this type has. Today's tragedy just reinforces that personal decision I had made. Having said that, we obviously don't have the details of the mod status of this machine yet. The question for CASA (assuming that the mod has not yet been incorporated on this machine) is how many more people have to die before they act in the interests of safety concerning R44's. The average person who chooses to do 'something special' and arrive at a venue in style has no real way of making an informed decision like those of us who work in the industry. They are relying on CASA to ensure risks are kept to an acceptable level. This event will raise lots of questions and may expose some serious failures in guarding public safety. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 The ad needs to be done by 30th April. Try explaining to the relatives " oh so sorry, if only they'd crashed one month later the outcome would have been different."That's is of course if the AD has not been done, and judging by the wreckage, and the witness testimony, I doubt it has been. I've seen first hand the blazay attitude some operators have towards th AD, and it makes me sick to my stomach. Come to my house, ill show you a video that will make you see things differently. Casa. Get these things out if the air until they are right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neville75 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Casa grounded the nations bonanza's fleet on 2 instances of worn control cables. Why won't they act of the R44? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Hopefully this one will bring a manslaughter charge, and people will start to get serious about safety again. Sadly if the account about hitting trees proves to be correct, regardless of the status of the fuel tanks, we all know how the report will pan out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 A crash from tree top height with no forwar speed should not be fatal IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 A crash from tree top height with no forwar speed should not be fatal IMHO. Dunno Motz, Lots of spinning crap going on there trying to shake itself to bits without the help of a tree. All depends on who ,what where and how it hit the ground. Other thing is if it hadn't clipped the tree we wouldn't even be having these conversations. And no I am not defending the Robbo's, you wouldn't get me in one even if it had titanium lined tanks, don't like them and never have. Alf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm not pointing fingers, but can any choppa just land where the pilot likes? What are the rules? I know that there is a lot of transfers done up to this restraunt, can any choppa just land there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 People will have a better chance of survival if the aircraft they are in, is fitted with bladder tanks as opposed to integral tanks in a impact IMHO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriya Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Lots of spinning crap going on there trying to shake itself to bits without the help of a tree. All depends on who ,what where and how it hit the ground. Alf Can't say I have ever really been a fan of the rotary wing concept either, but at least all that 'spinning crap' once it decides to depart has a level of inertia which will carry it away for the cabin. I agree with motz that it is not unreasonable to expect this type of accident to be survivable. It would be if the integrity of the fuel tank was such that you don't end up with a bonfire the moment a R44 ends up on its side (and lets face it, with all the wonderful forces that can get out of balance, it is not that hard for a helicopter to end up 'falling over'). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'm not pointing fingers, but can any choppa just land where the pilot likes? What are the rules? I know that there is a lot of transfers done up to this restraunt, can any choppa just land there? Motza, It is fairly common for Choppers to call in there for lunch, and while I don't know the specific rules, I was taken there in a Bell 206 a few years ago which my mate was learning to fly. The departure over the cliff to the east from that site, going immediately from 20 ft to 1200 ft is a great test for vertigo & a real buzz. It looks like they may have clipped those trees on the Nth side of the landing area, while from BOM data it indicates that there was a N - NE breeze blowing 20 knots gusting 25 - 30 knts down at the beach at Bellambi, so perhaps stronger at the top of the escarpment, with maybe a little rotor over the top of the cliff. I support the call for mandatory and immediate fitting of bladders in Robbos .... see attached pic of one on my front lawn a couple of weeks ago. This one has bladders fitted and I'm still towey about the fire issue if there is a whoopsie. Regards Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Very sad news and condolences to their family and friends Personally, I don't like helicopters at all... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now