Doug McCullough Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Just reading an article that refers to Low-Time Pilots and Experienced Pilots. Just wondering when a pilot moves from being a Low-Time Pilot to being an experienced Pilot? For instance, I have 320 hours up flying Ultra-lights (Tecnam Sierra). Am I still a Low-Time Pilot (I know I would be compared to professional Pilots based on hours alone) on the other hand I would have a more experience at flying Ultra-lights compared to professional pilots who have flown GA aircraft only. The terminology got me thinking which I know is dangerous but has anybody got an clues on when a Low-Time Pilot becomes an experienced Pilot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think the danger time is when your head reckons youve moved from low to high but your capability havent necessarily kept pace with your head........ If you own an aircraft and pay insurance that will give you a dollarised view of your experiences if you update the insurance company each year with your hours flown in the last year. low time =premium.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Andy so true, my take is a little different, the knowledge aspect slips a little each year unless you regularly refresh the books, the skill level is only maintained with regular use, so if Doug Mc ( for example ) has his 320 hours over 20 years, then you are definitely a low time pilot, I have nearly 3000 hours, mixed types and in various conditions, I still think I'm a low time pilot when operating a new type or in unfamiliar circumstances, but I have 350 hours on my own aircraft, so there I am a high time pilot, but put me in aBE58 doing a VOR / DME arrival and I'm sure as S..T, I'll be a very low time pilot. However for Doug, I think 320 hours in the past 5 - 10 years is of a medium amount, if it is all on much the same aircraft even better, if you go out in less than perfect conditions and hone your skills with x-wind landings and short field approaches, challenge yourself and your decision making processes, you'll know what you can do and what you shouldn't attempt. A regular ride with an instructor with the purpose of testing your knowledge level and skill base is always a good thing, it is mandated that we do it every two years, but if you feel it is prudent for you, do it every year. I'm sure for the price of a coffee and a piece of cake at the airfield cafe, any decent instructor with time to burn between students would be happy to chat about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Based on that Andy, if I buy an aircraft my insurance should be almost free! In my opinion flying is as much about recency as it is about total time, however I remember reading that pilots with around 500 hours are at very high risk of an accident and it decreases quite considerably once you pass 1000 hours. Of course the question is, do you have 500 hours? Or the same hour 500 times? (aka never left the circuit/training area) PS: To the opening poster, it's not so much about how many (or what) types you have flown, but how many situations you have seen. With more exposure you are better able to anticipate what is about to happen and to make decisions earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug McCullough Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks Guys, all valuable information and advice. I actually didn't want to categorise myself into one or the other, it was rather where did I sit and from you comments which I accept, don't try. Currently I have completed all of my hours in the Tecnam which I am a part owner of over the past 5 years. I have an Ra-Aus License. I have just embarked on applying for my PPL. I will will doing this in a Cessna 172, so I am a Student Pilot again learning to fly a new aircraft. So as you say, I will be a very low-time pilot in the new aircraft. Thanks again for the response. It appears that the question is mute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Based on that Andy, if I buy an aircraft my insurance should be almost free! . We'll as free as anything that has insurance in the title will be........ Free from an insuranc eperspective is when you finally have won enough lotto's or been paid out a few golden handshakes from the very top end of town at which point you can say...Naaah, I'll self insure and invest the premium!! Besides your assumption of lots and the insurance companys view of lots may well be different, in fact I think their idea of lots is when you are approaching and perhaps even passed by infinity..... Andy P.S agree about recency and broad exposure to different circumstances......In fact I oftyen wonder about ATPL's who do heaps and heaps of rinse and repeat, I think that whole I flew 12 ADL-SYD sectors this week and 10 SYD-MLB sectors would pretty smartly end up being boring as all hell! what do they do to keep engaged........I wonder if I'd fly for an 1hr and only remember the T/O and Landing and as I understand they only do 1/2 of them anyway..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothra Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Low hours pilots can still be professional, high hours dont stop you being a cowboy. Its the actions and attitude not the hours. Just my two bits. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Andy,IF aircrew alternate the take-offs and landings the other person is not just sitting there, although in some makes of aircraft the crew management is better than others. They are two crew operations with specific duties and responsiblities for PFand PNF or CM1 andCM2 Milk runs can be boring but if the weather is crook and the traffic is heavy and being put into patterns with fuel getting low it is not boring. You've got to get your next uplift and revise fuel loads and changed requirements (operational) servicing requirements .You might be "tankering" fuel because of fuel price differentials.etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 How would 500 hours in a Drifter compare with 500 hours in a C172. I would hazard a guess that the Drifter pilot would be more experienced at flying, possibly less experienced at procedures and radio usage. I may be wrong, not having any time in a Drifter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 The more landings and the more the conditions vary the more experience you are handling the plane. Long haul pilots if they share the legs can do two landings a month. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 How would 500 hours in a Drifter compare with 500 hours in a C172. I would hazard a guess that the Drifter pilot would be more experienced at flying, possibly less experienced at procedures and radio usage. I may be wrong, not having any time in a Drifter. You may be right. In any case, the Drifter pilot would be a lot more weather beaten after 500 hours, so he would definitely look more experienced. rgmwa 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakej Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 You may be right. In any case, the Drifter pilot would be a lot more weather beaten after 500 hours, so he would definitely look more experienced. rgmwa and . look more weather beaten too:roflmao: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neville75 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 and . look more weather beaten too:roflmao: wealthier too! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lark Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 There were some statistics in a US flying mag back in the early 90s, cant remember the full details. However it was claimed that hour wise, the 100 hour mark was the most dangerous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 With the right attitude, you never stop learning. therefore the more experience the more you know and that is what can help you. If you don't apply that knowledge wisely you have wasted it. Eventually all other things being equal, your attitude is what counts most. You can be a fool whether you have high or low hours, but there should be less fools achieving high hours. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Using hours alone is a bit subjective. As Nev says a long haul pilot can log many hours mostly on autopilot sharing legs & do a couple of landings a month. It took me years to get 100 hours Hang Gliding, but I did hundreds of very short flights looking for some lift all the way to the bottom of the hill. I got really good at takeoffs & landings but didn't have many hours. Others would only fly ridges when the conditions were right & then just park the glider in the lift band & look around. I may have had less hours than them but I reckon I was far more experienced. The second hundred came very much quicker largely due to my learning over the first hundred (thermalling) and the huge advances in glider performance from the 70s into the 80s. Often when I fly to an airfield I've not been to before, I will do 2 or 3 touch & goes before leaving. I also like deviating on the way to somewhere & do a touch & go & just carry on. It slows the trip a bit & costs a bit in extra fuel but I find it challenging, enjoyable and good experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Methusala Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Experience counts more than "hours". Fly as often as you can in as many types as you can. Doing circuits is character building as you try to improve judgement with each approach - not just the landing. I believe that airlines mandate that an approach be abandoned if not stabilised once reaching the inner marker. Fly in challenging conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 That's good advice, but don't rely on turning points in the circuit that are familiar to you, all the time. Do different sized circuits so that you have to think more. and may not be in a position to easily land now and then but you will get better at sideslipping etc . You can't do this at Moorabbin , but at a suitable place.... Jets have to be stabilised by about 400 feet. This would not apply to U/Ls and the approach should be controlled at all times but once you have done a fair bit of practice you can reduce that requirement (stabilised) to what YOU are comfortable with. In a forced landing in reality you might be dropping it over a row of trees and turning into the wind at the same time. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Thanks Guys, all valuable information and advice.I actually didn't want to categorise myself into one or the other, it was rather where did I sit and from you comments which I accept, don't try. Currently I have completed all of my hours in the Tecnam which I am a part owner of over the past 5 years. I have an Ra-Aus License. I have just embarked on applying for my PPL. I will will doing this in a Cessna 172, so I am a Student Pilot again learning to fly a new aircraft. So as you say, I will be a very low-time pilot in the new aircraft. Thanks again for the response. It appears that the question is mute. Good on ya Doug, good to see you on the site and well done for taking you flying further, see you soon again at H72 and don't let Andy wear that beautiful Sierra out! The C172 is a fantastic aircraft, you'll love it long time when you get to know it. Cheers Neil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpacro Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 .. Do different sized circuits so that you have to think more. and may not be in a position to easily land now and then but you will get better at sideslipping etc . You can't do this at Moorabbin , but at a suitable place....Nev Moorabbin is often good for exercises like that.Seriously Nev - come for a run sometime. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 There were some statistics in a US flying mag back in the early 90s, cant remember the full details. However it was claimed that hour wise, the 100 hour mark was the most dangerous. A "Greying Eagle" of an instructor once told me that at 100 hours, a pilot thinks he knows everything. If he survives to 200 hours, then he KNOWS he knows everything, so these experience levels are two possible numerical watersheds, and can be fraught with danger ( I have no idea where his statistical information came from ) "Eagle" concluded that if the pilot ever got to the dizzy heights of 1000 hours flight experience, . . . then he COULD, POSSIBLY, realise that he didn't really know that much at all and was still actually learning something on each additional flight. . . . I vividly remember a flying friend telling me proudly around twelve years ago, that he was now a "200 Hour Man !" I congratulated him heartily, and we had a coffee and a burger ( as you do ) in the clubroom. He had amassed his hours in quite a short time, ( less than 2 years ) due to his home location, less than a mile from the airfield, and being available to fly his own aircraft ( working from home ) whenever the weather was good. There is no MORAL to this tale, but he did have a very spectacular accident around nine years ago, when he had an engine failure after takeoff, at around 450 feet, and tried to turn back from just over the edge of the airfield boundary. The aircraft flicked over and it spun vertically into the ground. Surprisingly enough, he and his wife were actually not that badly injured, cuts, bruises and a broken ankle. The aircraft was a Rans S-10, ( very small, 24ft span, aerobatic 2 seat side by side config - Rotax 582 powered ) which had a heavily reinforced steel tube cockpit cage which didn't deform on impact. He had around 500 hours at the time of the accident, but this shock did stop him flying for a couple of years or so. He's now back into it, and has taken more training, IMC, Aerobatics etc. And insists, he'll never try another turnback ! He used to recount the story to student pilots who appeared to be getting a bitt TOO confident with their flying "Waffle" in the Club bar. . . . Nice to have a happy ending for a change. . . Phil Incidentally, if anyone wants the remains of his 582 engine, I've still got it in the back of my garage ! ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Usually whenever I start to feel like I'm a real live pilot ,the lovely contraption will teach me something and make me feel like a sweaty student all over again, and in fact when that stops happening I reckon it could all get a bit boring . I've just started doing the test flying on one I've built and its reinvigorated my shaky knee syndrome, doing the first flight was something I thought long and hard over and after getting as prepared as I could and taking advice from as many other pilots as possible I did it myself, its one of the hi lights of my flying journey! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 My instructor told me the watershed levels were 70 hours , 700 hours and 7000 hours. I am guessing 70,000 hours is often near fatal too, It seems instructors just have to tell you something to impress upon you to remain vigilent throughout your flying career. There is no doubt that complacency gets you killed in aviation so they are right to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 From memory, for CPL's it used to be 300 (100 hrs after your CPL), then 500 in command, (you might get to fly the company twins!), then it was 1000 TT - when you had actually developed wings!! happy days, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Oh Dear I have a test flight coming up and I am at about 700 hours. Should I do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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