motzartmerv Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The board is a separate issue. They need to be able to squabble and swear at each other in order to run things . We don't need to hear or see these discussions. What we do need is transparency at the top, ie, when the gm write me a letter directly, and I respond to him with questions, I expect some form of response. Silence is not acceptable in this situation. The board keep each other in check, that how the system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 Very well put Motzartmerv..So true.. I can imagine the robust discussions which occur at the board meetings. Regards Keith Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The word 'secretcy' is just not appropriate when talking about the boards' required degree of confidentially. The board needs to operate with a degree of confidentially to be efficient in what it does, ....otherwise nothing would be achieved at all. Getting a consensus from 12 people is bad enough..it just would not work, in the time that it needs to, if thousands or even hundreds were bought into the loop.You elected the current board members as your trusted representatives, and the current board is doing that well, and as an efficient team. A lot of what we have been recently dealing with was reported accuratly in the last magazine, in a timely fashion, and should continue to be. The board doesn't even share it's decisions with the GM and office exects until it has hashed things out, made a combined decision, and feel it is ready to be shared with all. I can guarantee you there is nothing 'secret' going on, that you won't hear about in the short term. Remember we are often harshly critized for the decisions we make on your behalf....but I can assure you, from what I have seen so far, those decisions are usually the correct and appropriate ones for the organisation, and the members, as a whole.........If you find yourself not happy with all this, the solution is easy, put your hand up next time the elections come around........................Maj...... If I had put my hand over the left of the screen and read this I would have sworn it was written by one of our past Presidents/Treasurers!! The only way we can be assured that nothing secret is going on is by the ones that are allegedly "keeping the secrets" telling us everything is OK? Sure.... That will work. The Board is there to make decisions, I don't think anyone disputes that. The Boards total lack of ability to convey those decisions in a timely manner to the membership via minutes to meetings or announcements on the web site is nothing short of pathetic management. (where are the minutes Maj?) Isn't this sort of behavior what got us in strife not so long ago, having people making decisions with no scrutiny or accountability? I think the time has come (did it ever leave?) to do what should have been done before and dismiss the whole Board, install an administrator and completely re write the whole rule book, complete with accountability and strict reporting procedures (with consequences if not followed) , before installing a new Board completely free of the pressures of secrecy and the "tow the line or we won't let you see anything important" type of bullying behavior that seems to be ingrained in senior Board members we have currently. We don't need our Board to keep feeding us platitudes on how well they have done, I want to see the proof in writing of all its wonderful achievements and be able to judge for myself if I think it really is as wonderful as we keep being told. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Give the Board members a break!. We have a Board that was, mostly, elected for the current term of office in the last six months, a new CEO, Tech Manager and Ops Manager (though Jill has great Corporate memory, obviously). The situation that the current Board and Executive inherited was an almighty clusterfrack with the future existence of RAA fairly precariously balanced. I, for one, wish to see then Board 'get it right' rather than rush into trying to change things with too little consideration of the matters that need to be addressed. Too hasty decision-making on important matters has a ridiculously high probability of the emergence of unintended consequences and RAA can NOT afford to blunder forwards as if with its head in a bag, it needs to address the serious issues facing the organisation and develop effective strategies and policies for its future. Precipitate release of information that is not in a final form as a decision of the Board is a decidedly BAD idea; release of a proposed position for member comment at the appropriate time is what is needed. Ironically, the term 'tow the line' would perhaps refer to pulling a barge along a narrow waterway - which some Board members may feel is all too appropriate for the situation, when the current requiring such 'towing' is against you... The term 'toe the line' means to conform to a standard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I guess I must be wrong to want to know important information as to how our organisation is going, and thinking it was the responsibility of the elected members to ensure ordinary members were advised of such information. My apologies, i didn't mean to step on anyone's "toes". Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Kev, I'll be as annoyed as you and anybody else if we aren't informed once decisions are taken, and I still find the RAA website to be disappointingly devoid of ongoing information. However, I do think it needs to be recognised that many serious issues have to be thrashed out by the Board before the decisions are made, and these guys have had little time to repair the damage that's been done over a considerable number of years. Further than that, we need to remember that RAA isn't just bound by the democratic will of its members - it must also act as the delegated authority for the rules and regulations that are imposed by CASA and quite often, a flow on from ICAO determinations and standards. That's one hell of a juggling act for the Board, don't underestimate the complexity. The Board members are - let's not forget - volunteers who are adding to their workload in life, the responsibility for keeping us flying legally and safely. The alternative to having RAA continue to operate effectively, is to go GA Experimental on an RPL under the control of CASA - which is NOT a representative body subject the the democratic will of its 'members'. If you are not happy with the way the RAA board is operating - you do have an alternative (sort of). I'm arguing for giving the 'new' Board time and space to get things sorted to our best benefit, not that there should be acceptance of restricted information to RAA members when the right time for dissemination of that has come. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Ironically, the term 'tow the line' would perhaps refer to pulling a barge along a narrow waterway It's actually toe the line Oscar. WWwwwwwwhhhhhhhhttttttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 It would seem that decisions have been made and members not informed. We have no way to confirm this unless the requires documents are released so I fail to see how you can not be annoyed as you claim you would be. The usual response to any questioning of the Board Members seems to be the ridiculous statement that if you want to know such information perhaps you should stand for election as a Board Member. To me this clearly indicates they believe you have to be a Board Member to know such technical and complicated information that should be kept from us mere members. Information, i might add, that the constitution requires they divulge to members in a set time frame. Unless you have found a way to get a PPC (or any other non conforming aircraft) licensed with CASA that I have been unable to find, I'm sure the argument that if you don't like it, go GA RPL also has no place in the quest for information and accountability. Some of us don't get a choice about which organisation we are governed by so we try to ensure we know whats happening with the organisation that has a direct bearing on whether we can fly or not. I don't think that is unreasonable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Perhaps what members are seeking is the equivalent of continuos disclosure. For a public company, there is a test about whether the information would have caused someone to buy, sell, or hold shares. If so, then it must be disclosed immediately. Other information can remain confidential to the board until released in a quarterly report or a general market update. Our equivalent might be whether the information would cause someone to renew their membership or not, or to buy or sell an RA registered aircraft. Information having those consequences should be released immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 None of us are happy about the current situation, but it is hardly what one might term "normal". Why some of these people still do it beats me. It looks like a "thankless task" to me. They don't get anything for doing it, bar a few expenses paid. Ring your rep(s). and if you don't get any satisfaction then say so. I am sure they have a lot on their plate at the moment. I have no doubt they are doing their best. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The beauty of secrecy, that one time you hit the ball out of the park is the only price you pay for all those bad shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The process lacks transparency Maj. The more you hide, the more it looks like you've got something to hide. Looks like you have a personal problem with it FT...we are not hiding anything...just normal process and workings of the board............Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The board is a separate issue. They need to be able to squabble and swear at each other in order to run things . We don't need to hear or see these discussions. What we do need is transparency at the top, ie, when the gm write me a letter directly, and I respond to him with questions, I expect some form of response. Silence is not acceptable in this situation.The board keep each other in check, that how the system works. Motz, write Back to him, he should be capable of dealing with his correspondence as GM......out of the boards hands at this point..........Maj..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 If I had put my hand over the left of the screen and read this I would have sworn it was written by one of our past Presidents/Treasurers!!The only way we can be assured that nothing secret is going on is by the ones that are allegedly "keeping the secrets" telling us everything is OK? Sure.... That will work. The Board is there to make decisions, I don't think anyone disputes that. The Boards total lack of ability to convey those decisions in a timely manner to the membership via minutes to meetings or announcements on the web site is nothing short of pathetic management. (where are the minutes Maj?) Isn't this sort of behavior what got us in strife not so long ago, having people making decisions with no scrutiny or accountability? I think the time has come (did it ever leave?) to do what should have been done before and dismiss the whole Board, install an administrator and completely re write the whole rule book, complete with accountability and strict reporting procedures (with consequences if not followed) , before installing a new Board completely free of the pressures of secrecy and the "tow the line or we won't let you see anything important" type of bullying behavior that seems to be ingrained in senior Board members we have currently. We don't need our Board to keep feeding us platitudes on how well they have done, I want to see the proof in writing of all its wonderful achievements and be able to judge for myself if I think it really is as wonderful as we keep being told. Kev Kevin, If you look at the RAA website...the minutes you seek are there........Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 That Dazza is part of the equation. I see Major puts his two bobs worth in occasionaly and I also see one thread bagging him for having an oppinion,, OI! Why can not he have view he is a RAAus member first of all then a board member. Keep your good work going Major I say thak you Major without you we will have very little information. Hi Keith, That's not what that thread was about at all. It drifted all over the place and several contributors assumed that bit was about silencing board members. Anything but. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Kevin, If you look at the RAA website...the minutes you seek are there........Maj.... Thanks Maj, just had a look and maybe there is something wrong on my end as I still cant seem to get the Sept 13 Board meeting minutes. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks Maj, just had a look and maybe there is something wrong on my end as I still cant seem to get the Sept 13 Board meeting minutes. Kev Kevin, tap on members....tap meetings....tap minutes...sign in......select minutes Sept 13 AGM......done....read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerochute Kev Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Kevin, tap on members....tap meetings....tap minutes...sign in......select minutes Sept 13 AGM......done....read No problem there Maj, its the Board Meeting minutes I cant get, not highlighted in blue or clickable. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriteah Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 The board is a separate issue. They need to be able to squabble and swear at each other in order to run things . We don't need to hear or see these discussions. What we do need is transparency at the top, ie, when the gm write me a letter directly, and I respond to him with questions, I expect some form of response. Silence is not acceptable in this situation.The board keep each other in check, that how the system works. Can I suggest you direct your question/s through your board Rep. I know for a fact that the GM is overworked and at times has hundreds of unopenned emails to plough through. He may put yours aside to address later and not get back to it. If you put it to your representative they may be able to action the request. Regards, Jim Tatlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks for the advice jim, but I'm starting to learn how the raa works( only taken me 15 years) and I think keeping my head down is a Better course of action. My objection to anonymity doesn't do me any favors me thinks. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 OI! Jim, However not what is described below-- That reply still took time. Regards Keith Page See the abortion of an email that was sent out by the GM last month RE insurance. What a cluster shag that was. All I asked for was the minutes which would show his contentions were sound. Still no reply. I know exactly what happened (through other means) but I want to hear it from the man who sent me the email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Can I suggest you direct your question/s through your board Rep. I know for a fact that the GM is overworked and at times has hundreds of unopenned emails to plough through. He may put yours aside to address later and not get back to it. If you put it to your representative they may be able to action the request.Regards, Jim Tatlock This is the problem with a system without transparency Jim, the old boys club are jumping the GM's queue getting favours fixed whilst the ordinary members are forced to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Still can't find the pulse. Just seems to me to be the usual bitching. I can still fly and relatively cheaply. I am not sure how many members have lost their ability to fly, which is what RAAus is all about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 This is the problem with a system without transparency Jim, the old boys club are jumping the GM's queue getting favours fixed whilst the ordinary members are forced to wait. FT , still the constant flow of mostly negative unproductive dribble from you.....what are you on ?.....can you give me one substantiated example of what you claim above !............Maj.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Why don't we start with the board releasing ALL the emails surrounding middo's proxy mail out. CASA's suspension of the registration process from the original audit onwards will make fascinating reading. You got so much dirt you are sitting on. Not wanting to live in the past too much how about the current state of the insurance tendering process. I accept your challenge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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