fly_tornado Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 wonder if this will fit into a Jabiru 120Kgs and 150hp http://www.purepowerm.com/propulsion-systems/jpe-01/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 wonder if this will fit into a Jabiru 120Kgs and 150hphttp://www.purepowerm.com/propulsion-systems/jpe-01/ To hell with diesels, I just want one of these 140hp 912UL motors!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 They have fuel heaters in Jet aircraft. What Vev says is correct. I've had problems in the high country with diesel vehicles even in summer at times. They just stop and you have to spray hot water everywhere to get them to run. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Why worry about it...just stick 95 into the rotax and it will work fine anyway. You can usually always get petrol just not 98. Take some octane booster if you are worried about it. Also consider a Viking or similar it will run on 91 all day long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 What sort of diesel do you have over there in Aussie? Here I can buy diesel in midsummer with 30 degree days for the tractor and have it sit in a 20L jerrycan until midwinter with -10 and it pours just fine and the tractor runs without a problem. No visible difference and viscosity change from +30 and -10 is minuscule, it still pours and flows just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Id say you get our winter diesel all year, which makes sense in NZ I think new 200 series come without water filteration on fuel at all. Risky considering something like $2k per injector replacement cost.......and they are V8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microman Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I was just reading on the Jodel forum of a bloke who recently finished a Diesel Jodel, an ecofly I believe, lives in NZ. all's well and he is very pleased with the result. I'll post his name as soon as I find it The blokes name is Charlie Kenny - he has built a Jodel which he calls the Governor - it is basically a stretched D18 with a Peugeot diesel engine - he plans to fly it as a single-seater as he likes plenty of room (he is a fairly big fellow). Haven't caught up with performance figures yet but I'll bet they are good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I was just reading on the Jodel forum of a bloke who recently finished a Diesel Jodel, an ecofly I believe, lives in NZ. all's well and he is very pleased with the result. I'll post his name as soon as I find it Chas Kenny has been working on his Peugeot diesel adaptation for years. https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLJADeg_seMPH4SKINeYQZJwG5bMtiWSM9&v=S1akmzBSgyE Whoops, I didn't see Microman's post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I bought a jerrycan, 20 ltrs diesel, in Darwin, used it in Tassie without a problem , Darwin 35 ish , Tassie, optimistically, 15 degrees C , well the rain had stopped. Had a quick trip around the Island. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vev Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I bought a jerrycan, 20 ltrs diesel, in Darwin, used it in Tassie without a problem , Darwin 35 ish , Tassie, optimistically, 15 degrees C , well the rain had stopped.Had a quick trip around the Island. spacesailor Sure often this will happen as a ship load of low cloud point fuel will go into northern port as there is no harm going into a warmer climate. It's simply the oil companies managing a supply options with tankers i.e. doing milk runs down the coast into cooler cilmates and use one size fits all fuel spec. However you can not rely on a low cloud point that will be suitable to take south or up high if you buy it in a warmer geography. Sometimes it will work and then other times it won't. Cheers Vev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Vev it has been a few years since we got winter fuel on the farm, we used to get a bit each year but have found for what we do it's not needed. The only times we have trouble is if we leave a vehicle outside and it is a big frost (lower than minus 4) otherwise no hassles at all. Not worth the extra couple of cents a litre for us. Now I know we can and will get conditions that will wax up diesel at altitude but I was wondering about additives. When we did order winter fuel we used to get it as a part load for example 2000 litres winter fuel and 8000 litres summer but it all came in the same load and the only difference was the driver added a certain amount of additive into the top of our tank as he was filling it. That was enough to stop any waxing even if vehicles were left out. So my question is (taking me a while to get there) ok maybe a couple of questions. Are we able to just have an additive that could be added to prevent waxing of bowser diesel? What would that additive have been? I seem to remember being told it was just kero but was younger so not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vev Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Hi SDQDI, The oil companies have a protocol they use during the seasons for each geography and manage the Cloud Point ... basically there is no need to buy a winter diesel these days as it already comes delivered to you in a fit for purpose formulation. There are cloud point depressant additives but good old heating oil or kero (Jet) works very well ... however you need to be mindful of how much sulphur you are adding in terms of meeting environmental requirements and, more importantly, the impact in reducing the viscosity of the fuel as well as the diluent effect on other additives in diesel fuel. By adding kero or heating oil you reduce the hydrodynamic film with the viscosity reduction and can cause accelerated wear of injector components, you recover a little bit of the anti wear factor through higher sulphur (which acts as a boundary lubricant) but it's a fine balance. In the Antarctic they basically use kero/heating oil for diesel fuel but they do add a lubricity agent to manage the wear on injector and pump components and a good dose of other additive to manage various combustion characteristics. As I said in an earlier post, Ecofly also recommended Jet A1 and I assume they have considered the impacts of lubricity and combustion in their engine systems. You can reliably know without doubt that Jet A1 will not turn into wax even in the most extreme recreational flying. I feel quite uncomfortable about using Aust diesel for aviation use as I am very aware of the scope of the local diesel product and how easily it could get you in trouble in the wrong application. I know some will say they bought diesel in Darwin and took it to Melbourne mid winter and all was good, that will happen but you can't rely on this always being the case... I can tell you of hundreds of stories where it didn't work out. Equally I am not supportive of someone attempting to blend up their own fuel as no consumer is going to reasonably know the starting point of the formulation and what they are adding. I hope this makes sense? Cheers Vev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotax618 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I have heard of certain persons using out of date Jet A in their diesel vehicles with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 if you google "anti waxing agent for diesel" you can find it online at boat supply shops, let us know how you go about buying it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 After my experience on Mt Hotham I contacted Shell who recommended adding kerosene without specifying an amount if I didn't have the local "winter mix". The kero would be extremely costly and probably risk injector pump damage without adding a lubricant. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I read this: From the BP website: BLENDING DIESEL If you are not in an alpine area but have abnormally cold weather,a diesel blend may provide some relief to lower the cloud point. Heating oil (duty paid at diesel rate) is an effective blending agent and your BP supplier can provide information on how to perform this safely, but typically would involve the following: ??Heating Oil at 25 litres for each 100 Litres of diesel, or ??kerosene at 5 litres for each 100 litres of Diesel. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Perhaps engine makers should be talking about "Diesel cycle" engines for aircraft designed for Avtur. No way standard diesel could be used, variations and distributor buggery on the way to your place is common. A place I worked at purchased 40,000L of "best tender price" diesel and within a few days or arrival, almost every machine was in workshop, even 30 year old Cat graders and such. No long term issues just clogged filters and lines. Turns out it was drain or rinse from large terminal and contained too much of something it shouldnt have.......an expensive lesson in tender assessment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 these aero diesel engines are all derived from modern auto applications, I can't see why they would need anything other than pump diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That's what I used to think FT. Have you been following this tread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 I still think pump diesel would be ok if used with a little thought, for example if it was weather like last weekend you say no and if it is 45 degrees out the back of Bourke you say yes (if suitably filtered) We NEVER use diesel without running it through a filter, it's just not worth it. Our neighbours only last year wrecked a couple of injector pumps (one on a irrigation bore another on a tractor) because of a bad load of diesel. The fuel company came out and swapped the 30000 litres but it didn't make up for lost irrigation in the heat of summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 At work we have a 23 000 litre diesel bowser. We use Caltex Vortex which feeds Landcruisers and the Hilux plus trucks and earth moving machinery. We have never had a problem with dirty fuel. But we are aware of the expensive damage that can happen with modern injected diesels. We go though around 20 000 litres a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 That's what I used to think FT. Have you been following this tread? These modern diesel engines aren't the same as a 30 year old caterpillar engine. I drive a ford 2.0L diesel, the performance is impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 No doubt if you stick to high quality suppliers and transport and store correctly theres a smaller chance of problems. Most issues Ive seen are similar to Mogas, that is due to someone storing poorly or stuffing aroind with it or simly old age Most auto derived diesels are very heavy Wouldnt avtur be easier and maybe cheaper being on steip and free of tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Has anyone installed or had anything to do with the ecofly diesel areo engine or any other diesel areo engine? I know the Fk9 can have one factory installed, I'm building a Savannah & very curious about them. I fly the Jodel diesel in NZ. Still early test flying. Jodel is updated D150. Chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Welcome aboard Chas. You'll find some familiar faces on this forum. Your beast got a couple of mentions recently (http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/ecofly-diesel-aero-engine.136625/page-2#post-504668) but some thought it was based on a D-18. I'm sure there are plenty of people interested in what you've learned about adapting an automotive Diesel engine to an aircraft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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