Private airstrip questions

[Lyndon]

A general question about using private land for operating my Savannah. Specifically in the Adelaide area. Are there restrictions or what you do on your land is your business.

 

Next question is does this change if I have one or two other friends use it as well.

 

Lyndon

 

 

[Guernsey]

It depends where you are in the Adelaide area.

 

Alan, Truro Flats.

 

 

[SDQDI]

It will vary depending on a lot of things for example if you plan to develope a strip or just fly out of a paddock, also it will depend how aviation friendly your neighbours are and that is not taking into account council restrictions.

 

For me I am lucky for a lot of reasons but mainly because of my good neighbours, if you have cranky neighbours you will have an uphill battle and others would be better versed in the legal channels than myself. I don't use a strip, I just use any farm road or paddock that is 'suitable' so haven't had to get a runway approved. I don't fly directly over neighbours houses and with our little motors (rotax's and jabs) most neighbours are pleasantly surprised at just how quiet they are and I haven't had any complaints.

 

I would say the neighbours are the biggest and main battle, if they are happy you will be fine but if one gets their back up it can cause huge headaches. I will let someone else give advise on legalities but IMO start bribing your neighbours as early as possible, (don't tell them you expect to have a lot of visitors!) try and build a good relationship with them so that they bring complaints to you and not the council.

 

This is all assuming you are not in controlled airspace or something silly

 

 

[storchy neil]

get neighbours on side very early council will act on a complaint

 

just keep it low key one idiot can stuff it for you

 

do you own the land or a direct relative neil

 

 

[Camel]

I have a pruvate strip and SDQDI and Storcy Niel are right.. if you upset neighbours then CASA or Council will act. I invite my neighbours flying and look after them. If you let your friends in be very carefull as they may do liw fly over neighbours or make noise and ruin your game. Also make everyone who come to sign a waiver that they understand it is a paddock.

 

 

[Downunder]

Be careful what you call it.

 

I know people with nice flat, wide "roads" strangely placed in paddocks.

 

This can keep councils and others out of the equasion.

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

nice flat, wide "roads" strangely placed in paddocks.

So do these "nice flat, wide "roads" strangely placed in paddocks." come with road signage saying " Beware Aircraft Crossing" lol or speed limit

 

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

On a serious note, I know of a private strip, owner went out one morning at first light as he is VFR, next the local farmers who are in bed by 7pm and up at god knows were saying Oh so and so went out over my house at 4am and woke me up and scared all my animals, whatever, you are never going to satisfy some of these old bugga's no matter what you do or how nice you are, only thing is try to go out and not over the complainers house even if it means a few NM out of your way to avoid going over him or her, these are the ones who object to daylight saving as it fades the curtains and the cows don't give the same milk.

 

Give me a 4 mile strip and a Lancaster please lol

 

 

[Nightmare]

As far as I'm aware, Councils have no jurisdiction over aviation matters as they are federally legislated. In saying that, there are some directions CASA have laid down as to how an ALA is to be constructed and operated. Like being at a certain height when over your neighbours property, ie: set your airstrip well back into your property. Or get permission from them to fly low over their property on approach or take off.

 

For the councils, a hanger looks awfully like a machinery shed for approval purposes.

 

 

[Camel]

As far as I'm aware, Councils have no jurisdiction over aviation matters as they are federally legislated. In saying that, there are some directions CASA have laid down as to how an ALA is to be constructed and operated. Like being at a certain height when over your neighbours property, ie: set your airstrip well back into your property. Or get permission from them to fly low over their property on approach or take off.For the councils, a hanger looks awfully like a machinery shed for approval purposes.

The moment you mention the word construct the council is involved.

 

 

[jetjr]

Not for farm sheds away from boundaries - 60m I think

 

Main point is, once people start to complain its almost too late

 

 

[Jaba-who]

As far as I'm aware, Councils have no jurisdiction over aviation matters as they are federally legislated. In saying that, there are some directions CASA have laid down as to how an ALA is to be constructed and operated. Like being at a certain height when over your neighbours property, ie: set your airstrip well back into your property. Or get permission from them to fly low over their property on approach or take off.For the councils, a hanger looks awfully like a machinery shed for approval purposes.

Sorry but that's completely untrue. While the aviation rules may be fine the local bylaws may still get you.

 

At one time there was a basic legal position that your right of access to your property did not define how that right to access was achieved. Car, motorbike, truck, boat plane or helicopter. Anything was fair game. But in the 1980s and 1990s various state governments enacted laws that gave power of exclusion over activities by landholders that to some degree by deceit included that right to access. They gave right of making bylaws to limit negative effects on neighbours and this came to include the right of access by means which carry undue effect on the neighbour.

 

So the local governments were given rights to limit things you might do which might make life intolerable to your neighbours such as burning rubbish in a backyard incinerator, starting your lawnmower at 5:30 am on a Sunday morning or making a hellish lot of noise or risking damage to a neighbour by landing or taking off in a Plane.

 

So if you had a silent aircraft you might be fine because you could argue that you didn't make life intolerable and you were following the aviation laws. But since planes aren't silent .......

 

Not all councils have local by-laws about this and some do. But you can bet that even if they don't that one complaint from a neighbour and they will have a bylaw as quick as they can.

 

As several people have said make peace with the neighbours as a priority.

 

 

[Camel]

I have looked at some zonings in council rules and some say no airports or heliports, my zoning has nothing about airports or heliports and is rural agriculture, I think rural residential has the limitations but this is obviously ok if you come and go and no one says anything.

 

 

[kasper]

Like most have said - talk to your neighbors but you really need to look at the Local Environment Plan for your council and look at your zoning.

 

eg Uralla here allows with consent Airstrips in land zones RU1 - Primary Production ... definition of "Airstrip" requires an established runway ... which explains why I do not have a runway but a paddock I can take off and land into from any direction I like ... I have not established a distinct runway and just operate from a flat paddock therefore I do not have a runway and am not operating an Airstrip so no council issues ... and my neighbors do not mind so all well and good.

 

But if I wanted to mark out a distinct runway with side and end markers I would fall foul of the definition of an Airstrip and would need to apply to council ... and if I did that then I am sure some 'bright spark' would drag out the CASA ALA definition and show that approval should not be given ... even though the CASA ALA definition is no longer a requirement.

 

Play nice, know the rules and keep neighbors happy.

 

 

[Camel]

As you said and probably know quite well Casa ALA document is only a guide, not sure if this is the latest ,

 

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/files/net351/f/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/92_1.pdf

 

 

[rankamateur]

The moment you mention the word construct the council is involved.

In our council construct only occurs in a shed over 200 sq m.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I was told you can put up anything you want so long as it is 200 metres from any boundary.....seems to be a real ruling from what I have found out in the Bundaberg shire...they do not promote it though

 

 

[Camel]

Here is 140 sq metres and 20 m from boundary and it says you can have two sheds without approval. Three sided sheds don't count I think !

 

 

[AussieB1rd]

As far as I'm aware, Councils have no jurisdiction over aviation matters as they are federally legislated. In saying that, there are some directions CASA have laid down as to how an ALA is to be constructed and operated. Like being at a certain height when over your neighbours property, ie: set your airstrip well back into your property. Or get permission from them to fly low over their property on approach or take off.For the councils, a hanger looks awfully like a machinery shed for approval purposes.

 

Not for farm sheds away from boundaries - 60m I think

 

I was told you can put up anything you want so long as it is 200 metres from any boundary.....seems to be a real ruling from what I have found out in the Bundaberg shire...they do not promote it though

I was about to say what Kyle just said, seems to be the rule of thumb in Qld anyway, but I think it can be closer to the boundary if it cannot be seen from the road, I know a guy who will do a good deal on fast growing clumping bamboo and if anyone say's Bex there will be trouble lol.

 

Yeah for farm sheds or hangers on rural property, acquaint yourself quietly on your local council ByLaws, no point giving them the heads up, knowledge is power so they say.

 

 

[rankamateur]

acquaint yourself quietly on your local council ByLaws, no point giving them the heads up, knowledge is power so they say.

My shed supplier made an enquiry with my council at planning stage so I didn't draw attention to myself.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

My hangar at the farm was all approved properly...but it is only 30 metres from my northern boundary. When I had the Ecosafe sewerage system installed it was all approved by the council and I put the weights on the inspector about this very issue and he pretty much confirmed I was correct about the 200 metre rule but you could see he was squirming a bit. They dont want it out there because they get done out of money...bloody cost me 750 bucks for the sewerage approvals and similar for the hangar

 

 

[David Isaac]

Like most have said - talk to your neighbors but you really need to look at the Local Environment Plan for your council and look at your zoning.eg Uralla here allows with consent Airstrips in land zones RU1 - Primary Production ... definition of "Airstrip" requires an established runway ... which explains why I do not have a runway but a paddock I can take off and land into from any direction I like ... I have not established a distinct runway and just operate from a flat paddock therefore I do not have a runway and am not operating an Airstrip so no council issues ... and my neighbors do not mind so all well and good.

 

But if I wanted to mark out a distinct runway with side and end markers I would fall foul of the definition of an Airstrip and would need to apply to council ... and if I did that then I am sure some 'bright spark' would drag out the CASA ALA definition and show that approval should not be given ... even though the CASA ALA definition is no longer a requirement.

 

Play nice, know the rules and keep neighbors happy.

I agree that your relationship with your neighbours is key before you start using any landing area.

Seems a lot of confusion on the ALA definitions. Any flat paddock that meets the dimensions spelled out in the CASA ALA guidelines for the performance requirements for your aircraft can be a legitimate ALA. The CASA ALA guidelines may well be just guidelines, but if your landing area does NOT meet the ALA dimensions for your aircraft and you have an accident ... good luck with your insurance. Clearly that does not necessarily apply to Ag pilots who are typically trained in a specialised area that we are NOT. The ALA dimensions are there for a safety margin reasons including all the obstacle free approach and departure splays. Just sticking some markers on a paddock to define the landing area does NOT turn an ALA into an airport, but an ALA always has a component part called the landing strip. Seems Uralla's definition of an airstrip would perhaps include all ALAs, except maybe an argument on what is 'established'.

 

It gets interesting when you don't need approval to put a driveway or road across your property for access or running your property, so why should you need approval for the piece of grass you use as a landing strip in the middle of your paddock?????

 

 

[storchy neil]

correct me if I'm wrong

 

last centuary about 1990 when there was a argument about ultralights lights landing in paddocks that they should use airstrips and it was said at he time that they did not need airstrips as any smooth paddock would do

 

I have seen it written some where that an ultralight aircraft does not have to use an approved ALA

 

on the proviso that it is safe to do so

 

I have a gut feeling that old that is old members at Holbrook will or can enlighten us on this subject neil

 

 

[kasper]

But David the ALA guidelines have 900m long 150m wide approach and departure mouth either end (assuming its not a 1 way strip because <insert name of deity of choice> forbid there is more than 2% slope on the actual runway) ... now my trikes ALL only need 150m to takeoff or land over a 50ft obstacle and if I am dropping a single seat thruster in its about the same ... so if I was looking at the ALA for 150m of runway I need to have 1.95km of clear approach/runway/departure.

 

I have 55 acres and I'm sorry but its not that long and thin ... and off both ends of the paddock at just about that distance are the villages of Kentucky and Kentucky South.

 

The ALA guidelines are not required any more for the simple reason that they are fundamentally not able to be used in 99% of properties unless you are doing Ag ops.

 

And I am fortunate in that I neither value nor insure my airframes - I built them and they are considered by me to have no value so the loss of one is my problem alone - the only insurance I have to worry about is the third party and any claim there is not going to be about operating from my paddock but running into a cow or horse in some elses paddock.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi mate.

 

But David the ALA guidelines have 900m long 150m wide approach and departure mouth either end (assuming its not a 1 way strip because <insert name of deity of choice> forbid there is more than 2% slope on the actual runway) ... now my trikes ALL only need 150m to takeoff or land over a 50ft obstacle and if I am dropping a single seat thruster in its about the same ... so if I was looking at the ALA for 150m of runway I need to have 1.95km of clear approach/runway/departure.

The sky is pretty clear mate hard not to get 900m of clear sky and the guide is what it is; designed for any aircraft.

 

 

The ALA guidelines are not required any more for the simple reason that they are fundamentally not able to be used in 99% of properties unless you are doing Ag ops.

Not sure where you draw the conclusion 'not required'. They are a guide for pilots and a conservative one at that. BTW you are allowed variation on the 2%. We all know we don't need the clearances required if we are skilled, but its the old "we gotta have something as a guide to get you on as a duty of care ...." thing. You know like if you prang and someone gets hurts, the old "how did you consider your operation was safe if you landed into a strip that did NOT meet the minimum recommended safety guidelines..." and having to answer that one and not look like you breached a duty of care to a passenger. But you would know how fickle the law and litigious process is.

 

And I am fortunate in that I neither value nor insure my airframes - I built them and they are considered by me to have no value so the loss of one is my problem alone - the only insurance I have to worry about is the third party and any claim there is not going to be about operating from my paddock but running into a cow or horse in some elses paddock.

Yep your are, probably not the case for many on here though. My insurance has always asked me ... do I only land on ALAs ...? Answer yes, because any paddock I purposely land on would meet the ALA guidelines of course!