Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 A See seven news with Darren Chester aboard Cessna doing wheels up landing, I posted from my fb but it opened my fb on here, will try post it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Cant find anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Ok found it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Again it did it , See 7 news, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Ok found it Can you post it as my fb appears every time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearo Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Not sure what the implication here is against CASA.. CASA does not handle GA investigations, that is done by ATSB. ATSB decided not to investigate according to that report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Not sure what the implication here is against CASA.. CASA does not handle GA investigations, that is done by ATSB. ATSB decided not to investigate according to that report. Notice had another, not the first time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 'Wheels-up' landing puts air safety minister's flight in peril www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wheelsup-landing-puts-air-safety-ministers-flight-in-peril/news-story/121e31aa70ad1cc1e45e4fc8dd9b5502 6 hours ago ... The cabinet minister responsible for air safety was involved in a “wheels-up” landing after the pilot became distracted by a mobile phone and failed to lower the landing gear, in what the regulator dubbed a “serious incident”. Transport Minister Darren Chester was travelling in the back seat of the light plane ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 'Wheels-up' landing puts air safety minister's flight in perilwww.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/wheelsup-landing-puts-air-safety-ministers-flight-in-peril/news-story/121e31aa70ad1cc1e45e4fc8dd9b5502 6 hours ago ... The cabinet minister responsible for air safety was involved in a “wheels-up” landing after the pilot became distracted by a mobile phone and failed to lower the landing gear, in what the regulator dubbed a “serious incident”. Transport Minister Darren Chester was travelling in the back seat of the light plane ... How does that become OH CASA AGAIN! ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Somewhat ironic, but in fairness, unless the mobile call was involving him it's just a remarkable coincidence. Perhaps IF he knew more about aviation he might have been alerted to a diversion of attention at a critical time, which ALL pilots should be aware of, but generally a passenger wouldn't get involved. As to investigation If no Injury , "they" (ATSB) might not see spending a lot of money as justified or maybe keep it under the horizon. That's just speculation, but an interesting situation, none the less. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Simple gear up landing with a lot of damage (rear prop strike etc) Channel 9 Melbourne sent someone down, and unless they got it wrong or Darren Chester didn't know what he was saying, he insisted the incident be handled as if he was any other citizen, the pilot self-reported to ATSB (not OH CASA AGAIN!) that he got distracted by using his mobile phone, and had banned himself from doing it again, and ATSB followed the decades-long convention with self-reporting and are not taking any action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Did you bother to notice that was the second gear up landing and they had not finished investigating the last one ! Why investigate the last one and not this one ! It’s very obvious if you listen to seven news interview or read the newspaper article ! So what caused the mishap ? failure to put wheels down ! That’s quite a significant mistake showing failure to check ! He is commercial not private ! Big difference ! Should have banned himself from gear up landings not just phone calls ! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Having a mobile phone connected through the intercom might be convenient but part of the landing checklist should be "phone mute or phone off". If this is the second of these for this pilot he obviously doesn't take too much effort to check he's got 3 greens before landing. He might have 9000 hours but complacency seems to be an issue here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Did you bother to notice that was the second gear up landing and they had not finished investigating the last one ! Why investigate the last one and not this one !It’s very obvious if you listen to seven news interview or read the newspaper article ! So what caused the mishap ? failure to put wheels down ! That’s quite a significant mistake showing failure to check ! He is commercial not private ! Big difference ! Should have banned himself from gear up landings not just phone calls ! Maybe you haven't looked back far enough; there are many of them; what's to investigate when the pilot's admitted he was using his phone and forgot to put the gear down? You might like to check the Self Reporting policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 Maybe you haven't looked back far enough; there are many of them; what's to investigate when the pilot's admitted he was using his phone and forgot to put the gear down?You might like to check the Self Reporting policy. You only die once in a crash ! This is a second gear up landing ! He is commercial ! Does he do checks ! Obviously not now and not before ! The phone is not the main issue ! The mistake is also just a mistake but being the second is a little much ! Being a friend to D.C is a bit strange for first gear up to be investigated and this one not ! Excuse me for being a little slow in checking self reporting ! He should report he does no landing checks because it interferes in his social life ! Please ! Is his memory up to speed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Self reporting saves them money. They have to encourage it. It sits strangely with their general Infringement Rule of Strict Liability. One extreme to the other. This putting the undercarriage down thing is pretty basic. CASA have had a bad record of it with it's own pilots. They could claim lack of experience often which is not available to professional charter at RPT folk. Anyhow that would be BS. I have always said IF it's important enough for you, you WILL give it the required attention. This is a self discipline thing. Having the gear down and locked stops expensive scraping noises which can also be dangerous. Fire etc and directional control, plus .. would YOU give this bloke a job? as in your professional standing. You can't just shrug it off.. Sterile cockpit should cover the situation where the plane is on the approach. ie NO non operational distractions at critical phases of flight.. Amend the Operations Manual first of all and.... You do it at a funeral. Turn the B... Thing OFF Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Self reporting saves them money. They have to encourage it. It sits strangely with their general Infringement Rule of Strict Liability. One extreme to the other.This putting the undercarriage down thing is pretty basic. CASA have had a bad record of it with it's own pilots. They could claim lack of experience often which is not available to professional charter at RPT folk. Anyhow that would be BS. I have always said IF it's important enough for you, you WILL give it the required attention. This is a self discipline thing. Having the gear down and locked stops expensive scraping noises which can also be dangerous. Fire etc and directional control, plus .. would YOU give this bloke a job? as in your professional standing. You can't just shrug it off.. Sterile cockpit should cover the situation where the plane is on the approach. ie NO non operational distractions at critical phases of flight.. Amend the Operations Manual first of all and.... You do it at a funeral. Turn the B... Thing OFF Nev This one's the almost classic case of HF; how many here would be on the phone to someone on Base, Final, Short Final 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Having a mobile phone connected through the intercom might be convenient but part of the landing checklist should be "phone mute or phone off". If this is the second of these for this pilot he obviously doesn't take too much effort to check he's got 3 greens before landing. He might have 9000 hours but complacency seems to be an issue here. Would appear he does not use checklists or does not do any checks! I would not fly with him nor would I expect anyone else to want to ! Casa should be protecting the public ! Is this an example ! The head guy thinks he is a good pilot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 As much as I dislike CASA I think it would be foolish of us to demand more be done here. At the end of the day self reporting is a whole let better for us as pilots than a huge heavy handed approach. Do we seriously want ourselves to be hauled over the coals every time we do a mistake? For sure wheels up landings that are operator error shouldn't happen but I too am human so I won't be throwing too many stones. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 You don't have to put people in Gaol but there's plenty of reasons to not see this as OK and just an unfortunate blip on someone's record. Accidents put everybody's insurance up and a wheels up usually closes an aerodrome for quite a while. If it's a single strip destination that could require planes to divert that haven't carried fuel for that eventuality, because legally they don't have to.. If pilots carry fuel for that possibility they are often asked to get a job elsewhere by a cost conscious boss...I might be considered a bit thing about an "everybody makes mistakes" approach but it's not suitable for an aviation environment, or plenty of other situations too. We have a complex interacting world where you affect more than just your self..Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Not sure about a second 'wheels up' . If I recall correctly, his 'previous one' was a recalcitrant nose wheel on a twin coming into Essendon about a year ago. He did a textbook landing on that occasion holding the aircraft nose off for as long as possible maintaining good alignment with the runway centreline..... Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 ATSB investigate serious accidents. A wheels up landing is not considered derious unless someone is hurt. CASA could investigate wether this pilot is competent or not, but it is pretty obvious that two wheels up landings does not reflect well on his competency. Two others are involved here, the owner of the planes and the insurer of the planes. Would you as an owner or an insurer consider letting this pilot fly your plane or one insured by you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 If I recall correctly, his 'previous one' was a recalcitrant nose wheel on a twin coming into Essendon about a year ago. That could be the reason for the ATSB investigation. If the pilot selected gear 'down' and a leg hung up, then an investigation would be advisable to see what part of the equipment failed to operate correctly. One would hope that the cause was a micro-switch out of alignment - an easy fix and something that would be noticed in other similar aircraft during a 100 hourly. Worst case would be that the investigation uncovered a problem in design or manufacture of a component that would require the issue of an airworthiness notice. In the most recent case, the cause for the Dunlops not coming down was a screw up on the control column. Fully explained. No need to malign the plane. Cured with "I must check 3 greens on Final" written on the blackboard one hundred times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 According to the Australian the pilot is the owner and operator. He said the volume of his phone connected via bluetooth was very loud when it rang as he was in landing mode and he did not attempt to answer the call but tried to reduce the volume on the phone which is why he was distracted. Still a pretty poor excuse for a commercial pilot carrying the minister in charge of Aviation. Obviously no checks done regarding the connected phone. And even worse the Minister says he'd fly with him again. What message does that send? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 The folio is "Transport and Infrastructure". Aeroplanes or Aviation don't get a mention, directly. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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