Wind turbines

[fly_tornado]

the subsidies for renewables is always spent in the communities where the wind and solar farms are built. its a win win for regional australia, bringing jobs and infrastructure to new areas

 

 

[facthunter]

I find you last comment about areas where planes can't take off or land a bit speculative Jetjr. What reliable factual evidence of this effect is about? Wind farms are not a particularly NEW phenomena. We know mountain Ranges can make turbulence  miles away. Mt Fuji for Instance .Standing waves. Tall building in Melbourne don't stop light aircraft and helicopters flying overhead..Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

Not talking about turbulence etc but rather a big area where an unplannned engine out might be a more significant problem than before.. Another group of obstacles to avoid and alter options for safe outlanding. They are built pn all types of terrain including peaks of hills making them much taller than 100m indicated

 

of course you can fly over it just like thick bush or water, but many would prefer to avoid it

 

200 km 2 is a massive area

 

 

[facthunter]

 I find them a good navaid. They stand out like powerlines.. I used to use the Yass to Dapto Powerline  often . Easy to see from a good way off, and a lot nicer to see than a dusty open cut mine in the case of the Wind Turbines..  Seriously though ,peaks of hills are not necessarily the best places to land in any case especially the downwind side.. I can't see landing over them  (windmills) to be much different from a line of trees.. In the old days CASA would have investigated possible risks to Aviation.. Perhaps they will get around to it, if it's real.  Nev.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

flip side they'll make a great navigational aid

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Allianz to stop selling insurance to coal companies

 

Europe’s biggest insurer aims to withdraw completely from sector by 2040

 

https://www.ft.com/content/a23a6c3c-4eec-11e8-9471-a083af05aea7

 

 

[M61A1]

It's called "VIRTUE SIGNALLING".

 

 

[fly_tornado]

virtue signalling is just something the media created, lack of competition for insurance on coal projects will drive up the cost of coal.  there are a ton of businesses, including your super fund, dumping coal and getting into the wind, water and solar. 

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth...

 

"...and there's a glut of capital that wants to sell coverage, ...The problem is that it's next to impossible to build actuarial models for events that have never happened and which aren't expected to reach their full impact for many decades to come. Claims data have varied year-to-year, with no clear buildup of warming-related storm losses,..."

 

"..."So far, the effects of climate change, if any, have not affected the insurance market," Buffett said. "I calculate probabilities of catastrophes no differently than 10 years ago..."

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/19/warren-buffetts-on-climate-change-friend-or-foe.html

 

I'd say there will be no shortage of coal insurers. Likely Indian or Chinese company's will jump in if the current insurers are really that stupid. 

 

(This new format forum will take a bit of working out re font size and colour)

 

.

 

 

[jetjr]

FT, the subsidies are paid to overseas energy companies, then a portion is spent with national construction firms who all but bypass local suppliers wherever possible

 

same for any significant infrastructure projects. In regional areas.

 

They need as part of federal funding model, tier 1 head contractors and that means only a few can even bid on the work. Subcontracts are let to cheapest suppliers or existing arrangements.

 

The required safety and other insurances precludes any locals providing much more than sandwiches or things that cant be trucked in.

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

FT, the subsidies are paid to overseas energy companies, then a portion is spent with national construction firms who all but bypass local suppliers wherever possiblesame for any significant infrastructure projects. In regional areas.

 

They need as part of federal funding model, tier 1 head contractors and that means only a few can even bid on the work. Subcontracts are let to cheapest suppliers or existing arrangements.

 

The required safety and other insurances precludes any locals providing much more than sandwiches or things that cant be trucked in.

I wonder if the owners of the pprune forum (KKR) are involved in it ?

 

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[fly_tornado]

Australian governments bet everything on coal, still betting on coal. the government tried to tax coal and Turnbull and Rudd got rolled by the politicians paid for by coal. Coal is also 87% foreign owned

 

 

 

[boleropilot]

if you want to see a graph that makes sense, look no further than the Pastafarian bible - within the pages of that magnificent book there is a graph that compares the reduction in pirates (the proper ones, with an eye patch and a parrot on their shoulder) with the increase in planet temperatures - the results are plain to see.  All we need to fix this mess is to start building replicas of the Black Pearl, fit them out with proper pirates, and send them off onto the stormy seas....

 

as far as this planet is concerned, imho it's a shame (as per the movie) that homo sapiens arose to superiority instead of the apes - they would have looked after the planet.  My final piece of wisdom for you all is that IF we manage to stop the incredible degradation we have caused and the planet manages to survive as a place for 'some' animals to live, I will be very surprised.  What we are doing is too little too late - we could do a lot more but we must have growth, so we'll stumble along, the rich will get richer and build impregnable castles within walls and manage their own food, while outside those walls it will look a lot like the Mad Max movie - only worse...

 

there endeth the rant...I'm so glad I didn't breed, and I'm even gladder that I won't be around to see what humans end up doing to this planet (and the remnant poor people)

 

BP

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

There is a prof from Arizona who says that we have less than ten years left and it is too late to do anything about global warming.

 

Personally, I disagree with his contention that there will be no humans left in ten years. Gosh, we can not only eat cockroaches, we can party on them.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't think anyone is saying there won't be humans left in ten years . They are saying that the window to effectively do some thing is limited for reasons like METHANE  40 x more greenhouse effect than CO2 and a lot available from perma fros areas Peat bogs, landfill and animals.  Nev

 

 

[Glenn Wilson]

if you want to see a graph that makes sense, look no further than the Pastafarian bible - within the pages of that magnificent book there is a graph that compares the reduction in pirates (the proper ones, with an eye patch and a parrot on their shoulder) with the increase in planet temperatures - the results are plain to see.  All we need to fix this mess is to start building replicas of the Black Pearl, fit them out with proper pirates, and send them off onto the stormy seas....as far as this planet is concerned, imho it's a shame (as per the movie) that homo sapiens arose to superiority instead of the apes - they would have looked after the planet.  My final piece of wisdom for you all is that IF we manage to stop the incredible degradation we have caused and the planet manages to survive as a place for 'some' animals to live, I will be very surprised.  What we are doing is too little too late - we could do a lot more but we must have growth, so we'll stumble along, the rich will get richer and build impregnable castles within walls and manage their own food, while outside those walls it will look a lot like the Mad Max movie - only worse...

 

there endeth the rant...I'm so glad I didn't breed, and I'm even gladder that I won't be around to see what humans end up doing to this planet (and the remnant poor people)

 

BP

BP that's all fine except that what about reincarnation?  Also growth is not a necessity.  Sustainability is a necessity.  When we humans get this and change our systems to repair and to create true sustainability then we might have a chance.  BTW flying recreationally is NOT sustainable in any way shape or form - but we still do it.  DuH!

 

 

[facthunter]

Our individual lives are not sustainable. We all die. The solar system has a finite life. The atoms we are made of  are recycled as atoms or compounds.. How rapidly you do that depends on where you immediately end up at the time of death.. Coming back as an identifiable creature would seem a remarkable co-incidence with a low probability but it's a good story and People like good stories.  LIVING things are totally remarkable and worthy of prolonged and intensive study. Respect for them is essential. If they die we do too. Nev

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nev, the guy is Mcpherson and he really is saying extinct in ten years.  Look him up on newshub.

 

I think he is being deliberately provocative to stir people out of their complacency.

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

Australian governments bet everything on coal, still betting on coal. the government tried to tax coal and Turnbull and Rudd got rolled by the politicians paid for by coal. Coal is also 87% foreign owned[ATTACH]38070.IPB[/ATTACH]

The classic coal income 'understanding' comes from former greens leader Bob Brown. In an ABC TV interview Brown said he wanted all coal mines closed. The interviewer asked brown how would we make up for the loss of income to Australia after all the coal mines were closed down. Brown suggested a 'super profits' tax on the coal miners............................... needless to say, brown were soon 'removed' from his position.

 

Re foreign ownership - Whatever the figure, like a lot of minerals and farm produce, most coal is exported anyway. As long as Oz gets its cut along the way who cares. We carn't value add much to our farm and mineral exports because, amongst other things, Australia's power costs have in a few short years gone from the cheapest in the world to nearly the highest in the world. And why is that...

 

...So, getting back to the thread subject and the justification of even building unreliable wind turbines that are a hazard to aviation:

 

A/ Wind turbines still need a back-up power source for when the wind don't blow. At this time the back-up is either coal power, or diesel or gas power. i.e., the back-up is carbon power. The stupidity of having two different hugely expensive power sources when only one is needed is beyond belief.

 

B/ The wind tower operators are guaranteed to be paid for the power they produce when the wind blows though suffer no financial responsibility for when they carn't supply power. Imagine if yer could get a paying job like that - Turn up for work when yer feel like it, feck around for half an hour, maybe don't work for a while or maybe just come in once a week and work for a day. And all your work time you get paid ten times or more the market rate for your 'variable' efforts. In the meantime the employer needs to keep a full time paid employee on stand by to work when Mr Wind Power couldn't be bothered...

 

C/ Turbulence and navigation hazard for aircraft.

 

Nuff fer now...

 

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[fly_tornado]

gas is the energy source of choice, pipelines are cheaper than railways

 

 

[jetjr]

Correct

 

So why aren't they being invested in like wind and solar?

 

Id guess not eligible for Govt handouts and secured returns

 

 

[Glenn Wilson]

The classic coal income 'understanding' comes from former greens leader Bob Brown. In an ABC TV interview Brown said he wanted all coal mines closed. The interviewer asked brown how would we make up for the loss of income to Australia after all the coal mines were closed down. Brown suggested a 'super profits' tax on the coal miners............................... needless to say, brown were soon 'removed' from his position.

Re foreign ownership - Whatever the figure, like a lot of minerals and farm produce, most coal is exported anyway. As long as Oz gets its cut along the way who cares. We carn't value add much to our farm and mineral exports because, amongst other things, Australia's power costs have in a few short years gone from the cheapest in the world to nearly the highest in the world. And why is that...

 

...So, getting back to the thread subject and the justification of even building unreliable wind turbines that are a hazard to aviation:

 

A/ Wind turbines still need a back-up power source for when the wind don't blow. At this time the back-up is either coal power, or diesel or gas power. i.e., the back-up is carbon power. The stupidity of having two different hugely expensive power sources when only one is needed is beyond belief.

 

B/ The wind tower operators are guaranteed to be paid for the power they produce when the wind blows though suffer no financial responsibility for when they carn't supply power. Imagine if yer could get a paying job like that - Turn up for work when yer feel like it, feck around for half an hour, maybe don't work for a while or maybe just come in once a week and work for a day. And all your work time you get paid ten times or more the market rate for your 'variable' efforts. In the meantime the employer needs to keep a full time paid employee on stand by to work when Mr Wind Power couldn't be bothered...

 

C/ Turbulence and navigation hazard for aircraft.

 

Nuff fer now...

 

.

Oh dear!

The plural of anecdote is not evidence - but there are many in the community who believe it is.

 

Just give us some verified data Mr Binghi.........please.........

 

 

[Flying Binghi]

gas is the energy source of choice, pipelines are cheaper than railways

Hmmm... and yet Oz coal is still exported as being the cheapest available source for smelting and power usage around the world. Any one flying around QLD will have seen those long rail lines to the coast to the big coal stock piles. Those coal stock piles are then loaded onto large ships and transported to yet another stock pile where the coal is likely loaded onto yet another train and taken to the coal power station or smelter. Seems us stoops here in Oz are the only ones who think unreliable sunbeams and wind farts are the cheapest source of power.

 

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[Flying Binghi]

Oh dear!The plural of anecdote is not evidence - but there are many in the community who believe it is.

 

Just give us some verified data Mr Binghi.........please.........

OK. Instead of a hand wave to my comments, unless your asking me the meaning of life, the universe and everything. Please define your question a bit better..

 

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[fly_tornado]

gas powered plants are way cheaper to build and operate, if china wants to pollute their agricultural soils with the ash from our coal they are welcome to it. Most of the chinese power plants are going bust now that China is moving away from increasing steel production. I read in one of the financial papers that 40% of them are running at a loss and are slated to close in the next decade.