Fuel container

[rhtrudder]

Can anyone see a problem using plastic 20 lt ag chemical containers to store petrol in , have got plenty to choose from 

[spacesailor]

Doesn't it depend on the chemical residue. 

Can it be clean properly. 

spacesailor

[old man emu]

Having just priced 20 litre plastic fuel cans at upwards from $25.00, go for it. Considering that ag chemicals are petrochemicals, I can't see a problem.  I would flush them with petrol just to make sure that any chemical residue was removed because you don't know how those chemicals would burn in a cylinder. Don't forget to paint the drums either yellow for diesel and red for Mogas/Avgas. And thoroughly dry the inside before putting in petrol. 

 

As with all storage of petrol, use it within 6 months, which is about the shelflife of fresh petrol. 

[skippydiesel]

Bunnings Aerospace does 20L plastic fuel containers for $25 (I bought mine when they were $19).

 

A flush with 91 RON should be sufficient to "clean" the chemical drums, assuming chemical residues  already flushed-out,  as per regulations,  for use as a fuel container. I also assuming that you would  filter the fuel going into the tank, just in case some solidified residues remain & detach, as well as what is entering the engine.

[rhtrudder]

Okay, they had roundup or glyphosate in them , probably just as corrosive as petrol maybe

[rhtrudder]

It took a few rinses to get rid of the frothy water, the plastic looks as solid as my other petrol containers 

[onetrack]

These containers are not officially marked as fuel containers under Australian Standard AS/NZS 2906:2001, and they're not recommended for use as fuel containers.

They simply don't meet the fuel container standards, which cover a lot of areas, including temperature and pressure resistance, and the type of allowable chemicals used in their construction.

Just because the containers are resistant to ag chemical attack, doesn't mean to say they're capable of resisting the attack of the multiple hydrocarbon solvents in fuels. They're likely to degrade more rapidly due to their single-use design.

The use of these containers may affect any potential insurance claim, if assessors found they were being used to transport fuel.

[rhtrudder]

Okay, you’ve talked me out of it, thanks 

[old man emu]

46 minutes ago, rhtrudder said:

Okay, you’ve talked me out of it, thanks 

Wait on! How long are you intending to hold fuel in them? I can't see any problem with a quick trip from servo to plane.

[skippydiesel]

5 hours ago, onetrack said:

These containers are not officially marked as fuel containers under Australian Standard AS/NZS 2906:2001, and they're not recommended for use as fuel containers.

They simply don't meet the fuel container standards, which cover a lot of areas, including temperature and pressure resistance, and the type of allowable chemicals used in their construction.

Just because the containers are resistant to ag chemical attack, doesn't mean to say they're capable of resisting the attack of the multiple hydrocarbon solvents in fuels. They're likely to degrade more rapidly due to their single-use design.

The use of these containers may affect any potential insurance claim, if assessors found they were being used to transport fuel.

I'm with OME - agricultural chemical containers may not be stamped with the specific Au standard for the carriage/storage of petroleum/diesel/etc BUT must be of robust construction, suitable for transport/storage over extended periods/wide temperature range, using materials that are resistant to a wide range of chemicals (which would include hydrocarbon's). Most would not be made for a specific chemical, so must have a wide application. They probably far exceed the quality of my Bunnings containers that have the Au stamp on them.

 

Your legally valid argument does not recognise the real world practicalities and commendable recycling of what are almost certainly perfectly functional fuel containers  A similar legalistic argument would be over colour coding fuel containers - while I agree with having fuel containers colour differentiated, the colour has no bearing on the containment/carriage qualities of the container - its simply a way of reducing the chance of cross fuel contamination..

 

Having said the above, I hasten to add that you should always work within the law ("Render unto Caesar......."  & all that)

Edited April 29, 2023 by skippydiesel

[Carbon Canary]

Glyphosate containers are expected to be made from HDPE. HDPE will tolerate direct contact with petroleum for a minimum of 30 days (that’s a standard exposure test period)

 

Glyphosate thermally degrades to ammonia, amines and some phosphorous compounds at engine combustion temperatures. If you triple rinse the containers (as required) the amount of glyphosate remaining should be negligible and hence the concentration of degradation products will also be negligible.

 

if you have an abundance of empty chemical plastic drums, these can be delivered to drumMUSTER collection sites.

[kgwilson]

I've been using 4 litre plastic oil containers to store 2 stroke whippersnipper & chainsaw petrol for at least 30 years & none have ever leaked or deteriorated. I replace with a new one when they get dirty or I find dirt in the bottom of the container. The only problem is the sidewalls are thin & they will expand if left half full or less in hot weather as the contents evaporate. In Summer I don't keep them absolutely airtight to prevent this happening.

[facthunter]

I regularly cut the bottom out of those and place them over the gearbox levers on the Ford tractor to keep water out and they only last a short while before    they get very brittle and crack. Probably the SUN does it to a greAT EXTENT BUT PLASTIC CONTAINERS GENERALLY ALWAYS LET ME DOWN BY FALLING APART LONG BEFORE i EXPECTED THEM TO (Caps key stuck)..and I wasn't watching for too long).  Nev

[pmccarthy]

I use black plastic 10 litre ag chemical containers for fuel. They are embossed as suitable for petrol and I think that was a sales feature to attract farmers to them. But I don’t use them for aircraft fuel.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

..................... But I don’t use them for aircraft fuel.

Please explain

[pmccarthy]

11 hours ago, skippydiesel said:

Please explain

I use the ag chemical ones for motorbikes, mower and sometimes cars. I have proper red plastic containers for aircraft mogas and I don’t use those for anything else.

[Blueadventures]

On 29/04/2023 at 9:15 AM, onetrack said:

These containers are not officially marked as fuel containers under Australian Standard AS/NZS 2906:2001, and they're not recommended for use as fuel containers.

They simply don't meet the fuel container standards, which cover a lot of areas, including temperature and pressure resistance, and the type of allowable chemicals used in their construction.

Just because the containers are resistant to ag chemical attack, doesn't mean to say they're capable of resisting the attack of the multiple hydrocarbon solvents in fuels. They're likely to degrade more rapidly due to their single-use design.

The use of these containers may affect any potential insurance claim, if assessors found they were being used to transport fuel.

Absolutely agree.  Purchase and use only approved plastic containers.

[spacesailor]

Even if they leak a little , or , the spout breaks off , then drops into the filler neck, 

Laugh Out Loud  Not .

Bloody cheap Chinese. 

spacesailor

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, pmccarthy said:

I use the ag chemical ones for motorbikes, mower and sometimes cars. I have proper red plastic containers for aircraft mogas and I don’t use those for anything else.

 

I too have my "proper red" Bunnings Aerospace supplied, plastic containers for ULP, dedicated to the pursuit of levitating🤣

 

I have, in my sinful past , used recycled 20L metal oil drums, for the sacred pursuit. The metal ones are rare now with most being "plastic". I still have my mower fuel in the old 20 L metal drums but use nifty 20-25L black plastic ex oil containers for my small diesel needs.

 

My main reason for going to the extraordinary expense of purchasing "proper red"  containers, is their shape - much easier to secure against movement, compared with cylindrical drums,  when transporting in back of ute. The red colour does nothing for me as such but given the choice of yellow, red/bluish all the same shape/cost BUT with suggestive labeling like Diesel, Water, Petrol , I  can be led to conform.

[Carbon Canary]

I’ve heard complaints that the Bunnings fuel containers leak around the lid. 

I’ll need to buy some (red) plastic jerry cans soon - can anyone suggest which brands to stay away from ?

[old man emu]

4 minutes ago, Carbon Canary said:

can anyone suggest which brands to stay away from

As much as I trade with Bunnings, I also accept that stuff at Bunnings is often not up to long life.  The reviews of one that they sell all say the same thing - Don't buy it. Better to go to specialist 4WD retailers. Same price, better quality.

[kgwilson]

39 minutes ago, Carbon Canary said:

I’ve heard complaints that the Bunnings fuel containers leak around the lid. 

I’ll need to buy some (red) plastic jerry cans soon - can anyone suggest which brands to stay away from ?

Proquip is a good brand. They are solid and have the spout retained internally so it stays clean. I also have a small 10 litre Scepter brand, also good. Same spout system but it has a ratchet style keeper which prevents the cap from loosening. Both have capped vents to allow fast emptying. Scepter used to be made in Canada but I'd say they are now made in China like everything else.

 

The Scepter is a squat design so doesn't tip over easily but takes up more floor space compared to the standard (Proquip) type which tips over easily but takes up less space. Both are in the $38-$40 range. BCF sell Proquip & Repco sell Scepter.

 

Stay away from cheap ones from Bunnings and Supercheap SCA brand and anything with an external spout which can get lost and dirty.

Edited May 1, 2023 by kgwilson

[pmccarthy]

I have had my red ones since 2011. The sort with the spouts inside the cap when closed. The main trouble is the yellow spouts don't bend enough when you tip the can up it inevitably spills. Made worse if you have a Mr Funnel balancing precariously in the tank filler. I gave up when I got the high wing and now transfer using a 10 litre Tuff Jug which doesn't spill a drop. But you need to do the Mr Funnel bit first when you fill the Tuff Jug. It is expensive but you only need the one.

[skippydiesel]

My Bunnings  "proper red" 20 L (will hold abut 23 L) fuel containers must be about 5-6 years old now. Don't have a vent cap but did have spouts (which I discarded) so decanting, by  pouring, can be messy, if care not taken. Cost about $19 when I got them. Have never leaked.

 

Cant understand why anyone is lifting 20L containers, to pour (even into a 10L "Tuff Jug) when there is a much safer spill resistant alternative - its called a 12 volt pump, which can run of any aircraft /dedicated/car battery. Pump & all the bits can be had for aground $100 (mine was $75 also about 5-6 years ago).

[kgwilson]

The red Proquip I have will hold 24 litres of 98 ULP filled right to the base of the filler neck.