Litespeed Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 20 hours ago, pmccarthy said: Consider Broome. They run on gas delivered by trucks. Solar will not work for four months of the year. Windmills will not survive a cyclone. Tidal, with the biggest tides in the world, is not environmentally possible. A package nuclear plant would be perfect. They have existed for nearly 70 years in submarines, with no disaster. Local solar and wind is entirely possible it must be designed for the conditions and positioned appropriately. Cyclone designs are available for wind systems. Since when does the sky stay black for four months of the year? It's very cheap to add more cells for shady days, battery storage drops in price constantly as well. How much would it cost for a Broome system, a guess of $1 billion for a system owned by the community and run by the them for a grid stable system that keeps the skills and money locally. How much for a Small Modular Reactor? Assuming you can get one (the biggest developer has just confirmed its program is stopped and not likely to be revived ) The expected cost would be $ 5 billion minimum. Plus all skills and maintenance would be contracted out forever to a foreign company. With us owning the legacy waste forever. It would also need a large desalination plant for cooling. Human consumption is not a priority, no cooling equals meltdown 😕. Shit, you can bet we would pay at least a cool $ billion on consultants. No wonder the lobby groups and LNP are dog whistling. That's Sovereign risk on a massive scale and cost. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 56 minutes ago, spacesailor said: It is a pity they can't be used for building trusses or spars . OR , anything! . It would be better than the present day. " Burials " . spacesailor The ones I've seen are just laid down in the paddock around the base of the tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoonyBob Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 57 minutes ago, spacesailor said: It is a pity they can't be used for building trusses or spars . OR , anything! . It would be better than the present day. " Burials " . spacesailor They are designed by FEM, to optimise their "Hgh-Cycle Fatigue Life"; and for optimum aerodynamic twist. As they are retired from fatigue issues, they are only useable in a non-fatigue environment, such as a compression member on a bridge. However, they are entirely the wrong shape for that - squat and cylindrical is the go! Perhaps they could be chewed up and used as filler for composite beams... but the work on non-cementitious cements (I kid you not!) by Wagner makes that less economically attractive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 57 minutes ago, spacesailor said: It is a pity they can't be used for building trusses or spars . OR , anything! . It would be better than the present day. " Burials " . spacesailor Actually you're on the ball 🏈. Essentially you just chop into small pieces, no waste and add a small amount of new resins and heat either forged and/or extruded into parts. So beams should be easy enough. This technique can be done very cheaply and with very low potential for pollutants. Transforming into a new product with minimal input is a smart way forward. A problem become a profitable solution. If you look up forged carbon you will get the idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 6 hours ago, facthunter said: "base load power" is a distraction. It's the peaks we have problems with and sudden changes AND cost. Solar PV is the cheapest by a large Margin. The grid is a major cost and a source of potential unreliability . Nev Have a look on the AEMO dashboard and you'll see the coal-fired power stations idling at Base-load. As the day gets hot you'll see them start to fire up the boilers and you'll see the renewables stay where they are at their maximum, then as it gets hotter again you'll see SA pulling power from Victoria, Victoria pulling hydro from Tas and Coal-fired from NSW, then as it gets hotter, NSW pulling power from Queensland which by then usually has started to ask the sugar mills to fire up and pulls power from them. On the dashboard you can see ALL the figures for the amount of power being generated by all the available methods, how much each method is generating and the exact amount of power being moved from one state to the next minute by minute. There's no modelling needed, no cute terminology used, no claims being made, you see every form of power generation Australia has, what can fire up and what gets lost in the dust. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Strange, I always thought 🤔 on hot days, due to the scorching sun 🌞, solar was cheap and plentiful, when allowed to connect to the grid. I better find a bucket of salt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, Litespeed said: Strange, I always thought 🤔 on hot days, due to the scorching sun 🌞, solar was cheap and plentiful, when allowed to connect to the grid. I better find a bucket of salt. Solar is sold to the AEMO system and on a hot day you can see it kW x kW contributing to the Easten States Grid it might be cheap but a couple of years ago when we ran out of peak power and 100,000 people lost their power in Melbourne solar and wind were producing just 1% of the power generation mix. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 What about the grid and coal plant failures, some taking months to get old parts? A much bigger problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, Litespeed said: What about the grid and coal plant failures, some taking months to get old parts? A much bigger problem The Coal-fired Plants, and Tas Hydro carried the 99% of Peak demand that day, with, from memory two turbines down for maintenance in the Latrobe Valley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I was talking generally not just one incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Why do you need fresh water for cooling ? Whats wrog with ocean water ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Sea water is corrosive. The boiler pipes are short lived with the cleanest of water . And what happens to the grid when solar flares hit us hard , ' as they seem to be increasing in strength ' , or is that " properganda . spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBoy1960 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 18 minutes ago, spacesailor said: And what happens to the grid when solar flares hit us hard , ' as they seem to be increasing in strength ' , or is that " properganda . spacesailor With only 200-300 years of "semi-accurate" climate records, and maybe 50 years of accurate climate records, for a planet thats billions of years old, who really knows what the typical climate should be/is ? We just don't really know if a few hot years following an ice age is normal. Just a personal opinion/observation not a researched scientific opinion. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 OR Perhaps the ' normal ' is hotter than the historians thought. Before the " snowball Earth " when giant reptilian creatures were ' top preditor ' . The Earth must have been " hot & lush " for All the " coal " that was laid down . spacesailor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 7 hours ago, Litespeed said: I think I now understand, you don't worry about the consequences of your choices as long as it fits your comfortable world view. Beliefs are not facts or science. nuclear is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 tart † Reactor Model Gross MWe 2023 China, CNNC Xiapu 1 CFR600 600 2023 Korea, KHNP Shin Hanul 2 APR1400 1400 2023 Korea, KHNP Saeul 3 APR1400 1400 2023 UAE, ENEC Barakah 4 APR1400 1400 2024 Bangladesh Rooppur 1 VVER-1200 1200 2024 Bangladesh Rooppur 2 VVER-1200 1200 2024 China, CGN Fangchenggang 4 Hualong One 1180 2024 China, Guodian & CNNC Zhangzhou 1 Hualong One 1212 2024 China, SPIC & Huaneng Shidaowan 1 CAP1400 1500 2024 France, EDF Flamanville 3 EPR 1650 2024 India, NPCIL Kakrapar 4 PHWR-700 700 2024 India, NPCIL Kalpakkam PFBR FBR 500 2024 Iran Bushehr 2 VVER-1000 1057 2024 Korea, KHNP Saeul 4 APR1400 1400 2024 Slovakia, SE Mochovce 4 VVER-440 471 2024 Turkey Akkuyu 1 VVER-1200 1200 2024 Turkey Akkuyu 2 VVER-1200 1200 2024 USA, Southern Vogtle 4 AP1000 1250 2025 China, CGN Taipingling 1 Hualong One 1200 2025 China, Guodian & CNNC Zhangzhou 2 Hualong One 1212 2025 China, SPIC & Huaneng Shidaowan 2 CAP1400 1500 2025 India, NPCIL Kudankulam 3 VVER-1000 1000 2025 India, NPCIL Kudankulam 4 VVER-1000 1000 2025 Russia, Rosenergoatom Kursk II-1 VVER-TOI 1255 2025 Russia, Rosenergoatom Kursk II-2 VVER-TOI 1255 2025 Turkey Akkuyu 3 VVER-1200 1200 2026 China, CGN Cangnan/San'ao 1 Hualong One 1150 2026 China, CGN Taipingling 2 Hualong One 1202 2026 China, CNNC Changjiang SMR 1 ACP100 125 2026 China, CNNC Tianwan 7 VVER-1200 1200 2026 China, CNNC Xiapu 2 CFR600 600 2026 China, Huaneng & CNNC Changjiang 3 Hualong One 1200 2026 India, NPCIL Rajasthan 7 PHWR-700 700 2026 India, NPCIL Rajasthan 8 PHWR-700 700 2026 Russia, Rosatom BREST-OD-300 BREST-300 300 2026 Turkey Akkuyu 4 VVER-1200 1200 2027 Argentina, CNEA Carem Carem25 29 2027 China, CGN Cangnan/San'ao 2 Hualong One 1150 2027 China, CNNC Sanmen 3 CAP1000 1250 2027 China, CNNC Tianwan 8 VVER-1200 1200 2027 China, CNNC & Datang Xudabao 3 VVER-1200 1200 2027 China, Huaneng & CNNC Changjiang 4 Hualong One 1200 2027 China, SPIC Haiyang 3 CAP1000 1250 2027 China, SPIC Haiyang 4 CAP1000 1250 2027 India, NPCIL Kudankulam 5 VVER-1000 1000 2027 India, NPCIL Kudankulam 6 VVER-1000 1000 2027 UK, EDF Hinkley Point C1 EPR 1720 2028 Brazil, Eletrobrás Angra 3 Pre-Konvoi 1405 2028 China, CGN Lufeng 5 Hualong One 1200 2028 China, CNNC Sanmen 4 CAP1000 1250 2028 China, CNNC & Datang Xudabao 4 VVER-1200 1200 2028 China, SPIC Lianjiang 1 CAP1000 1250 2028 Egypt, NPPA El Dabaa 1 VVER-1200 1200 2028 UK, EDF Hinkley Point C2 EPR 1720 2029 China, CGN Lufeng 6 Hualong One 1200 2030 Egypt, NPPA El Dabaa 2 VVER-1200 1200 2030 Egypt, NPPA El Dabaa 3 VVER-1200 1200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 MENU Nuclear Essentials Information Library Our Association Press Events Gallery Shop Nuclear energy and climate change Ukraine and nuclear energy Member Login Information Library A-Z Home / Information Library / Current and Future Generation / Plans For New Reactors Worldwide Plans For New Reactors Worldwide (Updated November 2023) About 60 reactors are under construction across the world. A further 110 are planned. Most reactors under construction or planned are in Asia. New plants coming online in recent years have largely been balanced by old plants being retired. Over the past 20 years, 108 reactors were retired as 97 started operation. Today there are about 440 nuclear power reactors operating in 32 countries plus Taiwan, with a combined capacity of about 390 GWe. In 2022 these provided 2545 TWh, about 10% of the world's electricity. Many countries with existing nuclear power programmes either have plans to, or are building, new power reactors. Every country worldwide that has operating nuclear power plants, or plants under construction, has a dedicated country profile in the Information Library. About 30 countries are considering, planning or starting nuclear power programmes. For more information see page on Emerging Nuclear Energy Countries. Nuclear reactors under construction About 60 power reactors are currently being constructed in 17 countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 you would think 17 countries building nuclear to save emissions would be a hint for australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoonyBob Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, BrendAn said: you would think 17 countries building nuclear to save emissions would be a hint for australia. Peer pressure, eh? I prefer the science, the whole science, and nothing but the science... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LoonyBob said: Peer pressure, eh? I prefer the science, the whole science, and nothing but the science... of course there would no science involved in building 60 reactors would there. there are thousands of stupid people involved in these projects. Edited December 5, 2023 by BrendAn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 and another thing about solar, are there enough materials available to cover australia in panels. mining enough copper will be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Stick to the facts. There's NO need to cover ALL of Australia in solar PV. Where's the copper in a solar Panel? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 25 million panels & 3000 wind turbines on 15,000 sq km is able to produce more than the current output from everything we have now. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 50 minutes ago, facthunter said: Stick to the facts. There's NO need to cover ALL of Australia in solar PV. Where's the copper in a solar Panel? Nev so they don't need thousands of meters of copper wiring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, kgwilson said: 25 million panels & 3000 wind turbines on 15,000 sq km is able to produce more than the current output from everything we have now. imagine what an eyesore that would be. ask the farmers what they think of wind turbines. farms are getting divided by the transmission lines running to the turbines. 3mt height limit for machinery passing under them means a lot of farm machinery and trucks have to go around the road to access the other side of the paddock. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now