Guest Maj Millard Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Hey Kyle, Big congratulations on your latest solo. As you will know by now the Savvy loves cross-winds, and pretty much handles anything wind-wise, come landing time. They are one of the most 'user-friendly' aircraft on landing that I have come across in fact. Also happy to hear that you like sideslipping, that shows me you in touch with your aircraft. I thought initially that the flap lever was in a strange place in the Savvy, but got used to it. I was probabily comparing it to the Lightwing which is above the right shoulder. I don't recall it being too hard to operate but any improvment would be welcome I'm sure. A little 'pressure' on a flap lever does let you know if you are deploying them a little too fast !....Good also to see those red harnesses in your photos....every time I see them now, I am reminded of my friends amazing survival in the Bingo crash because of them...And yes it is good to 'feel' your rudder with soft or no shoes. In the 70s as a skydiver we got into barefoot freefall (on the warm days !) so we could 'feel' the air a little better. I've known several ag-pilots who prefer to fly barefooted as rudder control in those low turns is important...........Cheers, keep up the good work...............................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hi Maj Thanks for the encouragement although not much flying happening for almost 2 weeks now the weather here has been shocking also most airfields have the dumbbells out so no bitumen no flying. Was hoping to get a few hours this week but they forecast rain again for tuesday and wednesday. The flap lever mod now I have the flaperons connected feel really nice also the new position for me is excellent. For smaller guys its a lot easier to operate the flap. The big news is I have finally secured a permanent hangar at YCAB so thats a big load of my mind so as soon as I have everything done here I can get the wings off and get the Sav to the hangar without any halfway houses etc. The hangar owner seems very nice and I can put a few things in the hangar as well so all in all a good outcome although it really was at the 11th hour. Ok back out to the Sav I am fitting the jury struts at the moment...for small pieces there is a lot of sweat and swearing going on Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 There are always some adjustments to be made with a new hangar mate, bit like getting along and helping out the neighbor really....you'll be fine, don't cramp his style or try to take the place over that's all.....Are you going to Old Station this year (26th May) wouldn't mind saying hi................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 The way this weather is going Maj... I my not even have my pilots certificate let alone my cross country endorsement by then . If its possible I will be there but probably will be next year I would say. I do hope to be at Monto late this year though it will either be by the Sav or we will drive from our farm that weekend same as the last Monto 2 years ago. Its only about 70 min drive to Monto from our place at Booyal I just asked him if I could get a set of shelves against the wall for tools and filters and oil etc just the usual stuff but I will probably fit a air band radio and antenna to listen whats going on the others in the hangar may find it useful as well. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The flap lever mod now I have the flaperons connected feel really nice also the new position for me is excellent. For smaller guys its a lot easier to operate the flap. Mark, I can foresee an interesting development happening. Remember JG3 developed VGs for the Savannah before ICP was doing this, essentially proving how good this was. "Nek Minnut", ICP brought out the Savannah VG! Perhaps ICP will see the value of your new and improved flap lever system and make it standard on Savannahs in future. The big news is I have finally secured a permanent hangar at YCAB so thats a big load of my mind so as soon as I have everything done here I can get the wings off and get the Sav to the hangar without any halfway houses etc. The hangar owner seems very nice and I can put a few things in the hangar as well so all in all a good outcome although it really was at the 11th hour. I am really happy for you! (I know you have been looking for a place to hangar your Sav since last year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 There are always some adjustments to be made with a new hangar mate, bit like getting along and helping out the neighbor really....you'll be fine, don't cramp his style or try to take the place over that's all.....Are you going to Old Station this year (26th May) wouldn't mind saying hi................Maj... I'll be there Maj.. Sorry I didn't deliver on hangarage Mark, but glad you are not homeless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan tonner Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hello Mark and all; I am at hour 500 with my Savannah VGW (I believe this is the North American VG XL) and I am enjoying every minute. This is my first airplane build and I am taking all the help I can get - there are only 15 Savannahs currently registered in Canada and none here in Nova Scotia (on the east coast) where I live. It is always a bit like a pioneering adventure when an issue pops up with the construction. I thought it appropriate to let you know how encouraging it is to hear from others with the same interests and with a willingness to share. Tony G (Denver Colorado) kindly steered me to your thread and has been a true friend - including sharing his building (and flying) experiences with SkyRaft - his Sav VGW which he started building about the same time this thread began. He indicated he had a similar flaperon pins issue and gave me the "heads-up" as I am still months from that point. I should also add that Eric Giles and his crew at (the former) SkyKits in Tennessee (now World Aircraft Company) - and Valter at ICP North America - (the new ICP agent for North America) have been very supportive and generous with their assistance. I have made special note of this thread and will make very careful measurements after attaching my wings - but before I rivet the attachment pins in place. It is a secure feeling to have a "fix" in my pocket prior to encountering an anticipated problem. I'm interested in your views about squaring the cabin frame: my cabin front to back wing mount measurements were as per the manual and also match my actual wing measurements. This dimension is controlled by the jig and, unless there were a manufacturing issue, should be exact anyway. (The operant in this sentence is "should".) The horizontal cabin diagonals (right rear to left front wing attachment holes and left rear to right front wing attachment holes) were made as close to identical as possible by using a pair of tie-down straps criss-crossed over the frame and tightened accordingly. Regarding vertical cabin diagonals - that is - the squareness of the cabin in cross-section. This is largely controlled at this point by the baggage van and seat back and these went together without issue. Further, I don't believe the top tubes on the cabin roof would have much effect if the cross-section were out-of-square. However, even a small amount of "lean" in the cabin cross-section would be magnified when the wings and the struts are attached to each side. So: how did you handle this measurement and how are adjustments (if required) needed? All the best, fly safely, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 Hi Dan I am glad you are finding this thread helpful and hope you have enjoyed building yours as I have mine. As far as lean on the cabin frame goes you don't have much control over that without bending something on the frame. The front arms of the cabin frame are dependant on where they attach to the motor mount. The 2 front bars that come forward pretty much determine that and if they are out from the jig when they weld it up then it would be very difficult to change it. You can't mount the cabin frame until you fit the motor mount the mounting holes for the front cabin frame attachment are determined by where you drill the engine mount holes on the firewall. The manual doesn't specify to mount the engine mount first which is a problem. I measured the diagonals to within .5mm and the other dimension is taken care of with the jig so it would be pretty hard to get things wrong. I actually spent more time checking and setting up for the measurements than actually fitting it all. As you are aware I am getting to the end of my build and I currently have the Sav pretty much totally assembled now. I am in the middle of fitting the wing to cabin cover plates thats a fiddly job but of course I won't rivet it until the final assembly at the hangar but they will be drilled and ready. I have just finished adjusting the flaperons for level and checking the movements. The book says not to adjust the top control rods but I had to adjust the bottom rods and they are now fully closed and the only way to get the flaperons to the level position is to adjust the top rods. I had to turn the top rods at the connection point to the actual flaperons 1 and a half turns each to get the flaperons to be at the zero degree on the wing jig. The first flap position is exactly spot on so the measurement on the new flap bracket is perfect there and at the full flap position it is just slightly a little further maybe around 1 degree more full flap so I am pretty happy with that Once I have these trim parts fitted then its a matter of checking all the nuts and bolts etc before she goes to the hangar and then back together totally ready for the inspection. I hope to get the Sav up to the hangar late next week Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Found the new engine for my Savannah I was a YCAB today picking up a job to do and of course while there having a chat to people I know and on the way back got to Sandora where "speedy" was working painting a beautifully restored Gypsy and of course its where the local Mustang hangs out. I went around the front looking at the Gypsy and lo and behold here was this beautiful new Merlin sitting beside the Stang. Apparently the stang engine has only an hour or two left on it and this is the replacement Its off topic but thought I would share a beautiful sight Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Mark, just watch the weight and balance, fuel tank capacity may need to be increased and of course the firewall will require some work! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Just few torque settings to get right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballpoint 246niner Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Word is a local manufacturer is also trying to extend their noses to fit it in but china won't build it for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 9, 2012 Author Share Posted April 9, 2012 Hi All Been quiet on here but been working away doing all the small finishing jobs. Although been away up at the farm for all of easter came back early today to beat the traffic. The only thing I have to show you that is new is the pitot tube mod I have done. The pitot is a real eye poker it sticks out and it just the right height to take out an eye. Some guys have made them removable with a silicone tube arrangement but the pitot is quite flimsy and doesn't feel right. I turned down some teflon rod I had here and drilled it through at 6mm. The alu pitot tube supplied is 1/4 inch which is 6.25mm. I measured it off to where I wanted to fit the connector unit and cut the alu tube. The right angle end of the tube that connects to the plastic tube going to the instruments is pushed into the 6mm hole end about 25mm this is nice and firm enough so it can be removed if necessary the other 70mm of the teflon tube has been drilled to 6.25 mm to a depth of 60mm which allows the tube to slip in just nicely with a slightly loose fit then it pushes firmly into the last 10mm that seals it off so it will be a complete airtight joiner. In the unlikely event the pitot gets lost or broken off I am sure the airspeed indicator may still work reasonably well as where it is is back a distance from the leading edge and I have tapered the front of it. So one day I may try it with it out and see how it performs but I am really happy with the fit of it all and how sturdy the removable pitot tube is. I have a few more things to do on the plane then later this week I will take the wings off and start to move the Sav up to the hangar. Will get some more pics posted when we do that Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcharl Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Mark, Re the mis-alignment of the inner aileron hinge, yours is not the first one I have heard of. I do wonder if those who have not had an issue have not looked hard enough.I am of the opinion that this mis-alignment is possibly the cause of the stress and occasional failure (although rare) of the coupler between the inner and outer aileron.I feel re-alignment of the inner hinge would be most worthwhile. Keep up the good work, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Mark,Re the mis-alignment of the inner aileron hinge, yours is not the first one I have heard of. I do wonder if those who have not had an issue have not looked hard enough.I am of the opinion that this mis-alignment is possibly the cause of the stress and occasional failure (although rare) of the coupler between the inner and outer aileron.I feel re-alignment of the inner hinge would be most worthwhile. Keep up the good work, Bob It is great to read of these 'niggly problems' on this forum. I wonder how many of these issues are fed back to ICP in Italy for them to have a closer look at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 In a galaxy far far away.......... oops wrong story Well I was hoping to get the Sav to the hangar last weekend but it didn't happen. Just before easter I got finally a kit of parts for the ballistic chute install on its way from italy it has been a saga almost as big as star wars. Anyway I got them to freight the parts on my TNT account and low and behold it arrived here the tuesday after easter not bad considering they left Italy on the previous Thursday. Opened up the box and saw these nice straps and some alu parts but something was missing.....bugger the actual parts I really needed were missing so got onto ICP and they immediately sent the missing parts they arrived here yesterday which again was outstanding considering they sent them by UPS. The pics show all the parts required. I really only wanted the tray section the straps and carabina and the 2 aerosfoil shaped pieces that go on the outside of the side roof struts. This way I can get all the roof parts in and the straps into the tray and the roof lexan riveted down and I will not have to open the roof section up when I get the actual parachute from magnum. I have included a couple of pics from the install manual that sort of show where the parts go. The rectangle parts go on top of the fuselage I will install all those later when the chute comes. ICP did inform me they do not recommend that you fit the chute when you have the extended baggage area but the only reason for this is the actual weight of the chute and the mounting rails that you install. I am pretty sure that really isn't a issue for me and I can install the rails in a manner that will be plenty strong enough to hold the 11kg for the chute onto the rails. I will take some more photos this week of the strap and roof install. I etched the parts this morning and painted them this afternoon and have temp fitted the tray tonight I will rivet the tray and the 2 side aerofoils tomorrow fit the straps then the roof can be riveted down with the hope that I will shift the Sav to the hangar this weekend. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 ICP did inform me they do not recommend that you fit the chute when you have the extended baggage area but the only reason for this is the actual weight of the chute and the mounting rails that you install. I am pretty sure that really isn't a issue for me and I can install the rails in a manner that will be plenty strong enough to hold the 11kg for the chute onto the rails. But... with the extended luggage installation, will the installation be strong enough for the chute to carry the aeroplane, the pilot, the passenger, the fuel weight and the baggage weight?In other words, does the extended luggage option require a stronger chute mounting system?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 The extended baggage area rear wall is further back by about 400mm this of course is too far back for CG requirements. You can still mount the rails that hold the chute in the position it would normally be in the baggage area they only difference is the rails will only be mounted at the top and bottom there would be no alu sheet the rails are mounted on as well. The only function really is that the rails can hold the weight of the chute NOT the weight of the aircraft. The chute attaches to the 4 points at the top of the cabin frame. When the rocket goes out it pulls a pull out sheet on top of the fuselage then the chute comes out of the pack that is mounted on the wall and the leader for the chute then pulls off the top lexan sheet above the cabin....there is no structural requirement for the actual baggage compartment rear wall...its only got to e strong enough to carry the weight of the parachute pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 I can see from the 1st picture especially, that the parachute ties onto the cabin frame. Those pictures look like they were from a slat-Savannah or a Savannah VG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 The pics came from the instruction manual I managed to get its 2004 and for a XL but basically exactly the same for all those bits have never changed except for the rear opening for the chute on the S version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 The the first picture where the loop on the left is not tight already is a failure waiting to happen! A dynamic load on a rope or tape... through a bight like that is bad BAD voodoo the one one the right is not better.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 There is not a instant full load on a ballistic chute like what you are talking about. Every chute has a graduated release so when the rocket goes off and out the chute is pulled from its pack before the chute expands it has a runner that goes up the strings to allow the chute and of course the load (the aircraft) to not have a instant quick load applied...well this is the theory and of all the research I have done and the videos I have watched this is how they operate. If the situation ever arrises that I need to deploy the chute I think I would rather the my chances with the chute and the way it attaches than not having one. The chute is not to save the plane its to save whats inside....there are 4 separate straps if one breaks then the plane comes down at a weird angle...doesnt matter the chute is on a single feeder so it doesn't matter so long as 1 of those straps is still attached to the frame then you are alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 When the chute snaps open, it is a dynamic load. The runner is there to help the chute open, not reduce load. Having said that you are no doubt correct and having four points of attachment is good, and looking at the tape used across 4 points it would be sufficient... It is sub-optimal. You will not get each strap taking the load at exactly the same time. Please excuse my incredulousness... but no one should EVER design a system where you have tape running over tape or rope running over rope or loose knots pulling tight when the scheisse hits the prop. I don't have a chute in my aircraft so temper my current 'expertise' accordingly You are far better of than I regardless of my observations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted April 18, 2012 Author Share Posted April 18, 2012 The chute is being fitted at the request of my mrs...and its not for structural failure at all ....the aircraft is very strong it is for when flying into crowded aerodromes just incase someone hits you or takes a wing off etc....its like Pitt St in Sydney traffic sometimes at Caboolture on the weekends or when just general flying someone not flying at the wrong height etc.....I think for 5000 bucks its good insurance...the mrs wanted it so it has to be done if you know what I mean. Even just in my flying training I have had at least 1 close call with a dark grey sportstar coming from redcliffe through the entry to downwind at YCAB...no radio call and at the wrong height...even after taking evasive action he didn't seem to have seen us.....Redcliffe has changed to a different frequency to the area here now even though they use the same training areas...so guess what...they forget to change to our freq and no one hears them or their intentions so you need to really keep your eyes peeled now Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 I would have a chute if I could for sure... no encouragement needed.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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