jetjr

ELAAA should promote itself and work hard to be an organisation members want to be part of, not just as an alternative to RAA or as some way to "show RAA" their disapproval No reason people can't be members of both Id have thought

A joint magazine was canned by SAAA some time ago, as of this morning they are more receptive I see safety reporting systems also being shared shortly Id see more cooperation between groups in future I did hear some say how well RAA represented itself at the Narromine event. One of these guys has been very critical n the past

Yes, I felt I heard about how cheap to maintain or how cheap it will be to buy a few too many times. Customers want good not cheap. I really hope I'm wrong and new engine does lots of testing before punters money is taken. Things were very positive in Jab camp overall. Seems twin is entering production in RSA now with certificates?? approved

Yep shortly afterwards, worth noting this has been 4years in making so far.

Why not prepare to raise the resolution for next meeting if it missed the boat this time? Assuming RAA has in fact done the wrong thing I'd say they have the message clearly - There are members out there who will pick up on every required protocol breach no matter how small or perhaps non critical. Not a bad thing if it is constructive and not used as a reason to beat up on employees on the whole getting good results. Meeting at Narromine saw wholehearted support and several statements from members to the effect they are doing a great job. Magazine was discussed at length, basically the $70 subscription covers paper, postage and printing, there is still a 1300 x subscription shortfall for paper version to break even, in loose numbers that's around $80k pa member subsidy to keep it alive or over half the current defecit.

Near 300 aircraft, few complaints, talks good from RAA, great display of new aircraft

That combination has done the trip to Narromine plus 2 hrs, only assemble days ago Another version has done 1000 hrs in test room, max rpm, max conditions Older version with several changes done 300 hrs in aircraft 4 cyl may be ready by end of yr

Front naca blocked off, fair bit of work went into finding that location for the new intake I have pic of 4 cyl Jab too somewhere All credit to Jabiru for being very open and discussing these advancements

Jaba, maybe take a look at a different point of view, you're quoting Rods position almost word for word. GFC has been blamed for poor Jab engines sales, and for sure had an impact but there was big problems with new hydraulic lifter engines at the same time, easily seen in local sales and failure rates in data. Remember this is the time that Jabiru diverted from CAE built base engine. It was made clear Jabiru planned to buy components overseas and get engine production in house, that was after CAE invested heavily in what was thought to be a partnership we all agree should be successful This is nearing reality around 5 years later, with lots of pain and whole CASA saga later They are forced to work together as both have key strengths an a tiny and specialised skill area. I attended talk to day by Rod outlining changes to engines and why. Full marks and some good work done. Interestingly it seems through analysis and testing both CAE and Jabiru are solving similar problems in different ways. Vibration analysis has revealed many problems and latest mods are removed them they claim Hydraulic lifter implementation brought on plenty of problems is the summary, caused harmonics right in range for throughbolts and caused some case fretting New larger bolts, old news but fixed harmonics without knowing it Flywheel bolts problem linked to poor friction joint, there is vibration problem so lighter flywheel and new washer clamp setup. Tried several rubber damping setups and it may come back in future. Double valve springs, provides higher seating force with only small increase in rocker, valve loads, I think to fight surge or hydraulic pressure issues Roller valve gear , less friction and wear New barrels with Nickasil and cast heads on cast sump, very new, at least some version 4 cyl due end of the year, runs much cooler, no rust, but does take time to run in 1000 hrs in test cell, some 300 hrs in aircraft but several versions and problems Expected to be cheaper and these will be fully assembled in house by Jabiru- a little concerning CAE have Worked on same issues, stick with solid lifters, lighter flywheel and belt drive alt, heavier barrels and better valve geometry.inhibitor for rust , bigger throughbolts and they have worked on oil system and piston cooling too In some respects the Jabiru work vindicates CAE changes and just runs a different path to solution. New Jabiru engine looks pretty nice but its a big jump in methods and materials. Going to take time to sort it out, unlikely they will waIt before selling in I expect. Great to see changes backed by analysis and testing. Was brief mention that parts are swappable to older engines

For sure CASA limitations had a massive impact however so did Jabiru in their handling of the problems over years Now it appears their production may be shifting elsewhere no doubt cheaper

Yes, head screwed onto barrel, no head bolts, just throughbolts. Looks nice but its a big change

I don't think casa want owner maintenance at all. Builders might be only exception Marap was the fall back position in this debate

Yes, spoke to Rod today, they have several attempts using straight hole rather than naca, exact locTion I see difficult needing zero positive pressure There's evidence it works well

If true that's a big problem for everyone, no parts or new engines from either company This rumour has done the rounds a few weeks ago, from US. I did see latest Jab engine on display with cast block and new barrels and heads, done just a few hrs.

Arrivals busy all day, underwing camping area full and into overflow area, Parking going to be tight tomorrow lots of trial flights and joy trips around Plenty to see and weather great Surprised if it was 15 kts Jab have twin and new engine on display, plenty of new aircraft to perve at

Not much justification for wasting RAA time and members money. Was also some pretty harsh accusations thrown around too.

Id doubt there are that many Jabiru's built with new throughbolts and all the mods needed to release limitations Some of these up grades were only "discovered" mid last year Camit would know how many were put together, Id suggest possibly less than Camit engines The sad part about Jabiru saga is that it impacts CAE too.

So no conspiracy or rampant lawlessness? ASIC may not be a silly as indicated

It only runs 4 head bolts and I did hear this needed attention - anyone know facts?

Yes new ones, but assemble to Jabiru spec and using their supplied parts - the parts that CAE dont make themselves. Id doubt Jabiru selling many new engines in last year or two.

A few points re CAE offering 40 amp altenator places very little load at startup, yet belt drive can dampen harmonics when running. Not so for old setup and the new 15 amp version which have load always Different pistons and barrels and inhibitor reduces cold friction. Evident by hand prop check before start, much easier. Camit use different flywheel attachment altogether, a threaded lock plate as I understand it. Flywheel is much lighter too. The reported starter cause is likely as we use high powered starter, the engine needs high speed to start. Forces are huge. Jabiru have had many attempts at fixing the problem, bigger bolts, dowels, loctite, starfish, now nordlocks. Still he cause hasn't been identified.

At some stage the board had to approve the tech manual, doesnt have to be all in agreement. Are you expecting power of veto for every board member simply nothing will get done. The development has been going on for years and a fair group of members, L2 and L4 saw and reviewed the manual. How is this secret?

What sort and who put it together? Any performance numbers?

8-10 kts on the ground? Windy enough i guess