David Isaac Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 didn't you join the board and then leave already and you are ofering him a chance? what do you mean exactly ?I find this really rude and offensive as YOU were once on the board but then left almost instently. what part are you playing these days other than throwing stones such as these above from the side lines? What point are you attempting to make Deb? Yes Don was on the Board and I was one of his supporters. Yes he did resign and for good reason, he wasn't the only one to resign at the time and had I been a board member at the time I also would have resigned. Since Don's resignation he continued to offer his financial expertise as a previous financial professional for some of Australia's largest companies to the board. But they declined to accept and continued with the nepotistic financial blundering (my words). Those days are over and again Don is offering support .... Are you suggesting he should be bitter and twisted and NOT encourage or support the Board? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I don't know about any one else , I'm getting sick of all the bich'n 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Having followed Don's posts for several years I am 100% behind him. It has been nothing but common sense and wise counsel. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chips Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 CASA would have this site and forum on speed dial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I really don't think The CASA gives a damn what is said on this or any other forum unless it is a path to prosecution. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 by using steaming pile of manure comments sugests that he does not respect the board in any way basically Well he obviously thought better of his over use of colourful superlatives because he appears to have removed it from this thread, yet you continue to make a point of something he has reconsidered and removed. Oh and by the way, very few of us had any respect for quite a number of board members at the time ... Remember the Special General Meeting that was called as a result? Quite an extraordinary set of circumstances don't you agree? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Not blaming you for anything in particular Deb, I just wasn't sure what point you were trying to make. We have all made mistakes posting over zealous comments from time to time, we do get about 20 minutes to edit our posts, or if you are a First Class member, you can edit your posts at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 didn't you join the board and then leave already and you are ofering him a chance? what do you mean exactly ? DLW, I think it is important that you have the facts at your disposal before making assertions about what I've been up to for the last, say, three years. I earnestly hope that you are interested to know the facts and that once in possession of the facts you might be prepared to revise your concerns about what you think I've been up to. Unfortunately, I can't suggest a useful way for you to discover what went on in the period between September 2011 and May 2012 on the RA-Aus Board or from May 2012 until the present in RA-Aus governance matters, in particular. You seem to be ill-informed at the moment and I grant you it is not easy to find out what has been going on at the core of RA-Aus. What I can tell you, and you can accept it or not as you choose, is that from 2010 I had become quite concerned about the poor governance of RA-Aus. A few concerned members, including myself, attempted to find out what was going on by putting questions on notice to a meeting at Natfly 2011. The answers to the questions were most unsatisfactory particularly from the then President Eugene Reid. In the end, Steve Runciman (recently elected Treasurer) stepped forward at the Meeting and agreed that the "Board had got it wrong" and that it would all be fixed. Sadly, nothing material ever came of that promise that I'm aware of. It seemed to us that it was going to be very, very difficult to get any change in the Board's lack of respect for the Constitution of RA-Aus just by asking pointed questions and so I was nominated to run for a "seat" on the Board for NSW/ACT Region. I was successful in that election in no small part due to the support of members of Recreational Flying and the many other members in NSW/ACT who were very unhappy with what was going on at RA-Aus HQ in Canberra. In that election, the sitting Board Member had been on the Board for some 12 years and his unseating was a clear expression of the dissatisfaction by the NSW/ACT Members who took the trouble to vote. At the Board Meeting immediately following the AGM, I was elected to the role of Treasurer and became, thereby, a member of the three-person Executive that ran the Board's business between face-to-face Board Meetings. In my relatively short time on the Board (8 months a little longer than an "instant") we achieved some useful things including upgrading of the Office computer hardware and telephone systems. I also proposed and had accepted that a Constitution Review Committee be commissioned with reviewing and proposing a re-write of the Constitution. I was appointed to Chair that Committee and went on to commence that work but the Committee was canned by the President after I resigned from the Board. I frequently found myself being overruled (2 to 1) by Runciman/Middleton in matters where I considered RA-Aus was not acting in the best interests of the Members. Matters became very difficult when the Insurance that covers Board Members Liability was allowed by the the CEO to expire for the second year in a row. Last minute, week by week extensions were advised by the Insurer with no real guarantee that the extensions were worth worth anything at all. For about six weeks Board Members hung by this thread risking their houses and superannuation. In the end, two of the Board Members who properly understood this risk resigned from the Board. The remainder, to this day, I believe did not comprehend the risk they were running. I had repeatedly requested that RA-Aus obtain formal legal advice on the nature of the personal risk for Board Members but that was not acted on by the President of the time. It was untenable to remain on a Board that was, in my opinion and to put it mildly, not risk averse and when there was no certainty of insurance cover. I was happy to serve the members of RA-Aus but not prepared to bet my house and superannuation against predators like Slater & Gordon. Despite having resigned from the Board, I continued to actively work for the Members of RA-Aus to bring the Board to account for their failings. This involved proposing changes to the Constitution to make the Board more accountable to the members and culminated in the extraordinary General Meeting in 2013. That Meeting precipitated the resignation of an ineffective Treasurer, exposed serious deficiencies in reporting of Membership numbers by the Secretary and lead, I believe, to the eventual resignation of the then President Runciman. Since that extraordinary General Meeting, there has been a strong trend for improved performance by the Board. Since the Board Elections in 2013 we have had the basis of a competent, responsive Board and I am confident that with the retirement of some of the old guard at the coming election and the election of new blood like Andy Saywell, we will have a Board that is well fitted for meeting the significant challenges RA-Aus is facing. My offer to assist the new CEO is just a continuation of the work I did for Mark Clayton. Mark recognised that the 25 or so Amendments I had proposed to the Constitution had merit and he could see I had a fair understanding of the RA-Aus Constitution and the Act which governs that Constitution. As such, I was able to advise him in matters relating to elections and meeting procedure and proof read notices being sent to the membership. While I had problems with the Board in 2011-2013 and I had no regard for the work of the previous CEO, I recognised Mark Clayton as a person with considerable ability and as somebody who had a good strategy in mind to bring RA-Aus into the 21st Century. DLW, does this answers your question about what I meant by offering to assist the new CEO? I find this really rude and offensive as YOU were once on the board but then left almost instently. what part are you playing these days other than throwing stones such as these above from the side lines? DLW, I'm sorry you find my colourful language offensive. However, I can't think of a better way to describe the mess RA-Aus found itself in in 2013. Years of mismanagement had membership and aircraft records in disarray. Members were facing months with their aircraft confined to hangars as a result. Flying schools were unable to operate for months at a time yet still had to face ongoing costs for their aircraft. This is not a situation that developed overnight. It took years of mismanagement for it to get to that state. Would a "steaming pile of excrement" be more accurate/acceptable? How would you describe it? I have never backed off from my drive to have RA-Aus Board respond to the Constitution. The Constitution embodies the Rules set by the Members as to how RA-Aus is to be operated. As mentioned above, I have been involved in a mountain of work to put to the Members and obtain a 75% "Yes" vote for changes to the RA-Aus Constitution to improve the way the Board operates and communicates with Members. For example, this year, for the first time ever, Members will receive the Annual Financial Statements at least 21 days before the Annual General Meeting. Go back to 2012 AGM and you would find that a Treasurer Eugene Reid offered a half-baked, one page summary of the financials to a fraction of the Members who attended the AGM, during the AGM. A vote was then called for the Annual Financial Statements to be adopted by the AGM, virtually sight unseen. At the same Meeting the then Secretary (Middleton) assured the Meeting that RA-Aus had a rapidly increasing membership approaching 13, 000 members and asked that his report be approved by the AGM. Subsequently it was found that the Membership was closer to 10,000 members. This year Members will have been able to give full consideration to the Annual reports of the President, Secretary and Treasurer well before the AGM commences. Members will then be in a position to ask questions and satisfy themselves on the reports before voting for their adoption by the Meeting. That's what I've been "playing at" and I hope you don't still consider that to be "throwing stones . . from the sidelines". So, tell us DLW, what have you been doing for RA-Aus for the last three years? 14 2 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Could you please advise how many applicants were received for the position of CEO, & furthermore what do the minutes of the general Committee meeting show as to the final vote for the accepted Applicant.The minutes of this subject Committee meeting relating to this matter would no doubt be on record & available to members should same be requested as per the Constitution & Company Code. John, while I am aware of the process, I was not a party to the execution of the process - that of course is the realm of the Board and its recruitment sub-committee. If you would like to know more, you would need to address that question to your Region's representative on the Board. Regarding access to the Board Minutes, Rule 36 of the Constitution says: "36. Inspection of books. The records, books and other documents of the Association shall be open to inspection at a place in the ACT, free of charge, by a Member of the Association on request at any reasonable hour." Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I am very close to sending 2 users on a holiday as I am getting sick and tired of having this site pulled down. I strongly remind FT and DLW, and other site users, of the site rules that you can not antagonise or attack ANY other site user in any way. Now if this thread doesn't start to come good my finger is on the delete button and holidays will be given...and I mean just 1 more bad post, just one more and it will happen Site rule 2.4 says... Members should not post messages which can provoke, harass, disturb, agitate other members whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Thank you for the info Don. This forum is not just a place to swap war stories and bag out jabiru's, its a valuable resource, and a tool for communication and discussion. I am sorry that baord members, current and EX, are subjected to such 'flaming' when they post their views and info. But thank god you guys (the few that still do) do it, otherwise we would all be mushrooms, kept in the dar and fed on ....well, you know. Thanks again mate. 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Warm cattle exhaust? Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 DWL, I do see your points and there is logic to it. But the error comes from thinking that all I was up to was taking potshots at Board Members. What we were being, I believe fairly critical of, was the poor decisions of the Board and the overt secrecy with which they were operating at the time. There has been a major turn around in Board performance since then because they were held to account at the extraordinary general meeting in 2013 and subsequent elections. If the Insurance had not been allowed to expire then I could have stayed on the Board. But, my house and super are assets of my family and I don't have the right to risk those while I pursue an attempt to get RA-Aus onto a proper footing. But, leaving the Board surely should not bind me to go silent and allow maladministration to go on regardless. My intent was not to crucify those who stayed on the Board but to get them to change and become more professional and communicate honestly with the Members. The current Board has even sorted out the appalling situation we had with Association Insurances, something the previous Boards never got close to getting under control. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Motz, Even so board membership does take very active posters and clips their wings severely, don't hear too much from Ross and Tony these days, a shame really. Office seems to strip the right of the individual to air their personal opinion in all walks of life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 don some think it was easy for you to leave the board getting out saved your house and your sanity as far as I am concerned you have voiced you opinion in a very constructive manner for some to criticise and not look at the big pitcher when you have brought to their attension thing that are wrong and should be addressed now not latter after talking to you at Temora I feel that if you just walked away and not give a shit about anyone your passion for raa to succeed not just bumble its way along would still be there after all is this site for discussion off flying and related incidents including our board that was once just there for glory put there by puppets and manipulation but when a person comes along and has the balls to not be gerked around by idiots that ran an organization witch was in my words corrupt example 14000 members plus insurance planes that did not comply lack off communication no accountability to some that criticise with out knowing facts are in my oppion puppets neil l 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hope you see my points Sorry Deborah L but no, I can't see the (or any) logic in these points. And as a matter of interest, given the nature of a few of your posts, have you perhaps changed your name & gender by deed-poll from XXX? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 Thanks Neil and all the others who have taken the time to read and absorb my (frequently) long winded explanations. Don Thing I most enjoyed about the last Natfly was the good fellowship. Meeting up with lots of people that I see only once a year is what keeps me coming back to Natfly. With the smaller crowds this year it actually made it even more friendly. And there is a chance if you take the time to track down the Board Members and get a first hand account of things we often just speculate about here. In particular, I had great chats with Ross Millard, Jim Tatlock and Trevor Bange. Very encouraging that we have folks like this on the Board now. Also met up with people I've only ever swapped posts with and that is always rewarding. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 . . . Could you please advise how many applicants were received for the position of CEO . . . John, I just noticed in the July edition of SportPilot on page 15 an article about the selection process. Seems there were "more than 30 applications for the role . . .". DOn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Also met up with people I've only ever swapped posts with and that is always rewarding. But how in the hell do you know who they are though? I spent all day at Evan's Head, January before last looking for Dazza type people, asked five or six suspects but none would own up to being him! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted July 9, 2014 Author Share Posted July 9, 2014 But how in the hell do you know who they are though? I spent all day at Evan's Head, January before last looking for Dazza type people, asked five or six suspects but none would own up to being him! If you have a picture of yourself as your avatar and stick your neck out a lot, it is hard to hide and they find you 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Lol Don the rest of us weren't so lucky in the graphic design phase and if we put our faces on our avatar Ian would ban us quick smart:laugh: 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 If you have a picture of yourself as your avatar and stick your neck out a lot, it is hard to hide and they find you Is that really you? I thought it was like dating sites, Google Images "good looking dude", cut and paste and you're done! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Where is the spelling Guru Dazza when you need him ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Warm cattle exhaust? Nev Compost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriteah Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hi Don, Hi Don, Could you please advise how many applicants were received for the position of CEO, & furthermore what do the minutes of the general Committee meeting show as to the final vote for the accepted Applicant. The minutes of this subject Committee meeting relating to this matter would no doubt be on record & available to members should same be requested as per the Constitution & Company Code. Cheers John John, 30 Applications received. Shortlisted to 5. 5 interviews conducted. A total of 10 votes from the board in favour of Michael Linke. Remaining board members did not vote or comment. The matter was discussed in Camera on our Webforums. Regards, Jim Tatlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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