motzartmerv Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Another through bolt failure on the 170. Found it today after a pilot reported rough running during a run up. 330 HRS since factory top end. 120 Hours post fly wheel retaining stud failure. Head shows signs of "pulling in" Total time on engine 1180 hrs We are preparing the defect reports for CASA and the RAA. Along with complaints to consumer affairs re the sh!t workmanship during the rebuild. Im done with these .... Things.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Nothing to see here, move along. Seriously though, I feel for the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadstick Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Isn't this 330 hours since the last thru bolt failure? I thought this engine went back to the factory after a front stud failure? have you got any pics? id like to see if they are the 7/16 through bolts. I am truly sorry to hear this, the owner has had a worse run than me with this plane! best of luck and let me know if I can help in any way, ( beer economy).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I really hope that somebody from Jabiru grows a conscience and helps his owner out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 You poor bugger Andy, I feel for you. I know there have been plenty of Jab knockers on the forums, and also others that have persevered with the product (like you) in the hopes of better outcomes as time goes by. But I can understand your frustration. I love the Jabiru's as it's an aussie icon where the airframe itself is concerned, but engine-wise, you seem to have had more problems than what one should reasonably be expected to tollerate. Sadly you are not alone, it seems. Many of your students who fly them while they are going ok, might want to buy one for themselves after their training, and if I ran the company i'd consider it good PR to fix the problem Pro Bono, but dont hold your breath for that outcome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 Isn't this 330 hours since the last thru bolt failure? I thought this engine went back to the factory after a front stud failure? Yes DS. The front stud failed 330 hours ago, less than 30 hours post the AD (larger nuts) being carried out. Jab copped to that one stating they sent the wrong nuts which lead to the failure. The engine was returned to the factory for the top end overhaul. 200 ish hours later the fly wheel "screws" failed. The lady that owns this aircraft has no option now. She can only push it to the back of the hangar and let it rot. She is out of funds. This aeroplane has sent her backwards and is now no longer a viable option for her. Theres no way Jab will warrant anything out of the 200 hours, and even if they would, they would no doubt blame her, or me or the last L2 to change a spark plug. She cant sell it either because nobody will buy a Jab these days, let alone one with a dead engine. I feel for her, she bought into the dream, believed the hype...And got stung... Buyer beware!!! 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Yes DS. The front stud failed 330 hours ago, less than 30 hours post the AD (larger nuts) being carried out.Jab copped to that one stating they sent the wrong nuts which lead to the failure. The engine was returned to the factory for the top end overhaul. 200 ish hours later the fly wheel "screws" failed. The lady that owns this aircraft has no option now. She can only push it to the back of the hangar and let it rot. She is out of funds. This aeroplane has sent her backwards and is now no longer a viable option for her. Theres no way Jab will warrant anything out of the 200 hours, and even if they would, they would no doubt blame her, or me or the last L2 to change a spark plug. She cant sell it either because nobody will buy a Jab these days, let alone one with a dead engine. I feel for her, she bought into the dream, believed the hype...And got stung... Buyer beware!!! Thats sad! But as you stated, it's buyer beware 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Pull the engine and dump it on their bloody desk thump the guy and make him fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Read through this, probably some action you can take. http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/the_acl/downloads/consumer_guarantees_guide.pdf 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 As expected. No help offered form the factory. They only warrant the top ends for 100 hours. What an awesome company this is, what fantastic service they provide. 100 hours.. No Rod, theres nothing wrong with your engines..They are brilliant, I spose thats why you stand by them, and put your money where your mouth is hey? 100 hours? I get better from chinese vibrating flesh lite. Full brief being prepared for CASA and RAA now. All records have been meticulously recorded re the maintenance of this engine . Consumer affairs will be the next step. Call me what you like, but this company has had its day, they have had every chance to fix this bloody engine..Now, its on like donkey kong. Anyone in the market for a boar ancor? Buckets of Sh....... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 sorry to hear about the 170, and the dramas it has caused, really does suck the big one! why even bother with warranty at all, only 100 hrs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted October 10, 2014 Author Share Posted October 10, 2014 yea, and yet...quote " theres nothing wrong with our engines"... ( We just wont warrant them, or our workmanship.) But we swear, theres nothing wrong..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 seams a random thing, some go to TBO no issues, well apart from buring as much oil as fuel, but most seam to just well, break.. i want to know how many failures go unreported? also, whats Jabiru like with their service bulletins, i get a new one from Rotax every few months... nice to know things are constantly on the improve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Second-hand motor on ebay: 2.2ltr hydrolic valves, Chris 0438021268, Morwell vic., Just a heads up. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 My little jab engine is running perfectly but would like to think it has a good back up service and parts team if needed how you treat past customers keeps new clients coming through the doors is the best advertisement you can get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Do you get warranty from LAME on a rebuild? Recessed head says overheating and someone keeps tensioning down, just sayin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Regardless of warranties an item must be 'fit for purpose', I'd be seeing a lawyer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 seams a random thing, some go to TBO no issues, well apart from buring as much oil as fuel, but most seam to just well, break.. i want to know how many failures go unreported?also, whats Jabiru like with their service bulletins, i get a new one from Rotax every few months... nice to know things are constantly on the improve. Seems to be far to random for me. My little jab engine is running perfectly but would like to think it has a good back up service and parts team if needed how you treat past customers keeps new clients coming through the doors is the best advertisement you can get. I am in the market for a plane and to be honest it has been suggested that I look at Jabs, as I would hope to put one online somewhere if I buy one. My initial thought was ok so there is a problem and the manufacturer seems to think most of it is operator error or poor maintenance. That sounds ok on the surface but these same type of operators and maintainers are not having similar problems with other makes of engine. My initial thoughts were fine I will buy one and get all maintenance done by the factory after all it's only an hour up the road. However unless these issues are address the second hand market in Jabs can only go down. So in short I have decided that 30 plus percent of the market is now a no go area. I am new to all this flying stuff, but in a past life I was well and truly in to maintenance on some very modern and highly technical equipment, so I am certainly not new to the concept of poor design v poor maintenance. As a newbie, I get the distinct impression that there are 3 very real problems. 1. An engine that has continuously proven a weakness in a couple of areas. 2. A supplier/manufacturer who rightly or wrongly continually looks to others to blame. 3. A head in the sand attitude to a design fault, whether it is perceived or real. (Even if it is the fault of operators/maintainers, it is still a design fault when similarly trained people don't have problems with other engines.) So does anyone know of any good 24 reg non-Jab powered aircraft that are capable of carrying two pax @ 200kgs plus a tank full of fuel. (insert tongue in cheek here ) Cheers Geoff13 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 You all fail to understand the funda mental business brilliance at play here. Sell an absolute truck load of planes, with future problems and then make money from those problems.... Its brilliant management....its just like Apple iPhone home keys ....after 14 months they start playing up, the screens fade, they cost lots to repair so you end up replacing them... Only problem is with a Jab your forced to repair it... its brilliant... They could never sell another plane and stay in business just doing engine repairs. not many other manufacturers are int hat position. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Of course the old planned obsolecence trick. Who would have guessed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 But Geoff due to regs...it actually works in aviation with $80,000 aircraft and $5000 repairs In iPhones they just replace them...same result...the consumer loses and the douche bag wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 You all fail to understand the funda mental business brilliance at play here.Sell an absolute truck load of planes, with future problems and then make money from those problems.... Its brilliant management....its just like Apple iPhone home keys ....after 14 months they start playing up, the screens fade, they cost lots to repair so you end up replacing them... Only problem is with a Jab your forced to repair it... its brilliant... They could never sell another plane and stay in business just doing engine repairs. not many other manufacturers are int hat position. True, and the problem is, is that people have put their heart and sole into being able to afford to buy these aircraft. Then they get the cold shoulder treatment from the manufacturer in some cases when the engine doesn't work as advertised. It isn't the Australian way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Dazza i have a Rotax powered aircraft and i too have had immense problems with warranty.. i wont go into them here other then to say disgraceful... So its not just Jabs.. .but at least my Rotax is likely to keep going, and the warranty issues are money issues not lives at risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Dazza i have a Rotax powered aircraft and i too have had immense problems with warranty.. i wont go into them here other then to say disgraceful... So its not just Jabs.. .but at least my Rotax is likely to keep going, and the warranty issues are money issues not lives at risk. Is it Rotax direct or the aircraft manufacturer ? What I mean is, is the engine itself the cause or the airframe installation or maybe a combination of both ? In Jabiru's case, they are the airframe and engine manufacturer (via CAMit), the aircraft in queston is factory built, so it cannot be modified for better cooling or anything lke that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 No mine is the manufacturer and importer. . The rotax is fine. The only reason these guys get away with this crap is because we pay over $40k and the accc doesnt cover us... Otherwise they would be in serious poo... We need to start a fund towards holding these importers and jabs accountable... Actually raa should take this up for us against dodgy warranties.... After all we are already an association of members 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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