Guest ozzie Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 7 news just reporting a double fatal accident at Lismore this morning. Type unknown. Witness reports aircraft took off and dropped left wing then dove into ground. Fire consumed wreckage. Reported possible student and instructor onboard. No further details at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/two-die-in-nsw-plane-crash-20121109-2922i.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Jeez, not another one.A very very bad year for accidents this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 yeah... i just wish my mother wouldn't feel the need to text me about them day before my lesson... HOW does she see these things before I do?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Aviation is very unforgiving of omissions, errors or failures. Sad indeed. Take extra care folks. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 If every car crash was reported in the media the way every air crash is, there would never have been any airtime left to report the GFC and we would never have known it was happening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayavner Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 'Plane had been flying circuits' Sam Todhunter, an instructor who was flying circuits in the area with his student, said he heard the pilot of the plane call in when it was "10 miles" out from Lismore Airport. He had heard two male voices making the call. The aircraft then joined the circuit about 9.45am, he said. "We would be doing landing and he would be calling downwind - that's the start of the downwind leg. After two of those, another helicopter had left on the same runway while we were on the final approach to land. And then I heard no more from this aeroplane," Mr Todhunter said. "But I did notice when I was turning downwind that straight ahead of me - the track parallel to the runway - there was smoke. I just thought it was a grass fire and took no notice of it." Mr Todhunter said he was told a plane had crashed after he landed and he returned to the crash site and saw that the aeroplane was burnt, but otherwise intact, with an "enormous grass fire" around it. "The aeroplane was intact and it appeared to have gone down vertically, like a stall," he said. Mr Todhunter said he believed the crash may have occurred while the pilot was turning during the base leg, which is the final leg in a rectangular flying pattern before landing. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/wow-hes-going-down-two-die-in-nsw-plane-crash-20121109-2922i.html#ixzz2BgoF91St Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmick Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Mr Todhunter said he was told a plane had crashed after he landed and he returned to the crash site and saw that the aeroplane was burnt, but otherwise intact, with an "enormous grass fire" around it. Part of the report quotes the local CFI as above and then Mr Bilson said "When the plane hit, it just disintegrated, because there's not two bits of it held together." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I hear about it so many times in a panic situation where the ground is coming up. A/c stalls and or spins. Fly speed for best lift/drag or min. sink. A simple stall in most planes won't put the nose down vertically but a resultant incipient spin will. In panic you use ailerons and that just enforces the spin. If I am slow and see a wing drop I use opposite rudder, increase the speed a bit and follow with aileron. Practice it regularly so it's a reflex action. Sometime you may have fraction of a second to get it right and live. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Gold coast nine news confirmed that the aircraft belonged to Air Gold Coast. My condolences to the instructor & students families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 I hear about it so many times in a panic situation where the ground is coming up. A/c stalls and or spins. Fly speed for best lift/drag or min. sink Prior to WW2, spin in was the most common cause of death. WW2 produced a lot of new designs and a lot of training (although I believe more Beaufighter pilots died around Mildura in training, than in combat), and post-war the design focus was to make an aircraft which the average person could fly safely, and again the training was stepped up. I think we have probably coasted on the back of that generation for too long, and memories have faded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I have just had the most terrible news; the pilot was a very close personal and family friend, well known for his kindness and integrity in his community on the Gold Coast. This is a terrible outcome for a very special family, he leaves behind two wonderful sons and a beautiful wife. He was under conversion instruction, hard to imagine how such an accident can happen. I am saddened beyond belief to hear of this outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Prior to WW2, spin in was the most common cause of death.WW2 produced a lot of new designs and a lot of training (although I believe more Beaufighter pilots died around Mildura in training, than in combat), and post-war the design focus was to make an aircraft which the average person could fly safely, and again the training was stepped up. I think we have probably coasted on the back of that generation for too long, and memories have faded. I think alot of the new European ultralight aircraft on our register suffer when it comes to spinning. Most are not tested in this respect for LSA Certification. One of the few around that has been tested fully is the Vans RV12. It appears the Piper Sport fatality near Bundy ealier this year was the result of a flat spin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I despair at the lack of 'unusual attitude' awareness in modern pilots of both GA and RAA ilk. There is even a substantial misunderstanding of what an incipient spin is and it is certainly NOT just a wing drop. We do NOT teach this subject well if at all in GA or RAA circles, it is no longer a required part of the PPL syllabus and has not been for more than 30 years; few modern aircraft are spin certified these days. Removing this training from the PPL syllabus and not teaching it in the RAA syllabus in my humble view is a significant error in the judgement on competency standards. My heart aches for my friend should this prove to have been the cause of his untimely death and that of his instructor who will also have a despairing family as I write this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Condolences to you and your friends' family David...sad news............................................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yes Condolences to your friends family also David. Do you know what make of aircraft was involved? I had heard it was a Piper but not sure Gold Coast aviation had any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 It sounds like a stall on base to final turn. Almost always fatal. High enough to kill you, too low to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yes Condolences to your friends family also David.Do you know what make of aircraft was involved? I had heard it was a Piper but not sure Gold Coast aviation had any of them. It wasn't a piper and I am currently having a mental blank on the brand, but it had just been imported from the USA and had been assembled here. Chris was doing a CSU and retractable conversion so he could solo the aircraft and was flying with an instructor he knew and had done a lot of instruction with. He was a meticulous man in every respect. It sounds like a stall on base to final turn. Almost always fatal. High enough to kill you, too low to correct. It does sound terribly like a base/final turn stall and spin, but how could that possibly happen with an instructor on board, I am almost suspicious of an engine failure that may have compromised their situation. No specific details as yet. Knowing Chris as well as I did, none of this makes any sense ... it is a devastating event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 It wasn't a piper and I am currently having a mental blank on the brand, but it had just been imported from the USA and had been assembled here. Chris was doing a CSU and retractable conversion so he could solo the aircraft and was flying with an instructor he knew and had done a lot of instruction with. He was a meticulous man in every respect. According to a Police report I just found it was a Tobago TB20 which would follow along the lines you have suggested. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 According to a Police report I just found it was a Tobago TB20 which would follow along the lines you have suggested.Cheers I heard that it was a Trinidad. Which is retractable.Could also be a tobago as the look virtually the same except that a tobago has fixed gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltacharlie Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Socata TB-20.VH-HBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Socata TB-20.VH-HBB. Tb-20 is the designation for a Trinidad. (Also TB21). Tobago is Tb-10, (also can be Tb-200 depending on engine) Socata have confusing aircraft model numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I heard that it was a Trinidad. Which is retractable.Could also be a tobago as the look virtually the same except that a tobago has fixed gear. I think you are right Dazza, I was thinking Trinidad and wrote Tobago. Old Timers setting (Set) in I think. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregrobertson Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I have a number of hours up in a Trinidad. Pull the power off on final and they drop like a stone. Nice plane otherwise. My condolences to the families and friends left behind. Greg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yes it was a S.O.C.A.T.A.-GROUPE AEROSPATIALE Trinidad Model: TB-20. Chris was very proud of his acquisition and was looking forward to doing his conversion. We were only comparing notes a few weeks ago ... his high speed sophisticated aeroplane, with my slow historic Auster. He was equally as excited for me as I was for him. When these things strike so close to home I really have trouble grappling with an understanding as to how this could possibly have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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