Emergency general meeting

[Robert]

Hi All

 

Thought I would start this thread so members can state or voice what they would like to be brought up at the meeting and what changes they would like to be looked into as far as RAAus is concerned.

 

Thats of course if the meeting goes ahead. If members are dissatisfied with the way things are going within the RAAus now is the time to voice it so things can change or be sorted out. So if your not satisfied please support the calling of a meeting so you can voice your opinions .

 

 

[turboplanner]

Going well - is that five or 6 splits so far.

 

No one's going to be able to follow all this in a month's time.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I second cficare motion and the meeting shall be known as "meeting of extraordinary gentlemen and ladies of a certain reputation "

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't qualify for either of those, but isn't extraordinary GM the term used, for anything but the "ordinary" AGM? Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

I would have thought it applies in this instance, Nev

 

kaz

 

 

[facthunter]

There is certainly a sense of urgency, kaz. I'm only trying to get the terminology correct. Nev

 

 

[Guernsey]

Too many threads on the same subject, co-ordination required.

 

Alan.

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Just for fun . . .

 

In the ordinary sense the Feb 9th meeting can be described as an extraordinary general meeting as it is not a scheduled general meeting. It was requisition in response to an emergency - members aircraft stranded on the ground. But, the Board decided that does not justify an emergency and would have preferred the meeting to be held 125 days after it was requisitioned but caved in and put it on 77 days after it was called for. Now that is audacious!

 

As of the last AGM, and against the wishes of the Board, RA has one scheduled GM each year to be held on Easter Saturday at Natfly. RA has one (of course) AGM each year in late September. An AGM is a special type of General Meeting with the agenda carved in stone in the Constitution. It requires the Board to have copies of the audited accounts available before the meeting and for each member attending the AGM. Didn't happen as the Board were too busy doing . .

 

General Meetings, whether scheduled or extraordinary have the same form. And are not bound by the restrictions that apply to an AGM.

 

A general meeting can be described as a special general meeting if a motion for a special resolution is to be voted on at the meeting. A special resolution is one which if passed by a 75% majority would amend the Constitution. 21 days notice is required for a special general meeting and 14 days notice for an general meeting (scheduled or extraordinary).

 

Hope this is of use.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Why don't we just call it The Fore Coming Lynching

 

 

[nomadpete]

I just gotta post something here just to get this thread back to the top. The thread was intended to start debate around formulating questions and possible consequential motions for the Feb General Meeting.

 

Please start listing questions that you would like to ask (nicely) at the meeting. Questions that can lead to positive motions to help get RAAus back on track. We have surely all vented enough here. It's time to come up collectively with some positive process to get some answers and then be able to select some positive motions to vote on, to restore proper governance and transparency. Here are a few ideas.........

 

What process has been implemented to bring RAAus record keeping up the the standard required by CASA? Possible answer = (a) none (b) a process explained - could be great or could be flawed.

 

How many aircraft registrations are presently lapsed due to issues identified by the CASA audits?

 

How long will the backlog take to clear?

 

What KPI's are written into the new position of General Manager?

 

What internal auditing is being set up by RAAus to ensure that pilot certificate records are p to date and adequate for any CASA audit?

 

Is the constitutional reform committee active? What is the timeframe before members are advised of its recommendations? Pending the answer, move for it to be set up with a timeframe for a response.

 

What would you ask? Then based on the possible answer, would you feel that a motion should be moved to fix a problem.

 

If we don't go in with a orderly plan, we run the risk of the meeting degenerating into an anger fest - which would not serve any useful purpose for us and perhaps only play into the hands of the secret clique who keep calling us concerned members a small bunch of trouble makers. I would dearly like to see the meeting reveal that we are justly concerned and we want to contribute to a positive outcome. But to achieve that we should have some consensus on the order and content of questions, and possible motions.

 

 

[Guernsey]

A preliminary meeting before the main meeting ?

 

 

[dodo]

On the grounding issue:

 

What action did the board take on receipt of the initial CASA audit report? What subsequent actions were taken in response to subsequent followup audit reports? Why were these not successful? Why did the board not anticipate CASA action after not one,but three follow-up audits? What has the board put in place to avoid similar outcomes in future?

 

On governance:

 

Why has the board been unable to meet a number of basic regulatory requirements over the last year, which many other associations (under the same and similar legislation) do not seem to find onerous?

 

The focus is not on the minutiae, but on the root causes - the "Why?", not so much the "How?"

 

Communications:

 

I have no idea how to ask a question about the boards communications, because I genuinely believe the board doesn't really believe there is a problem. Any ideas appreciated!

 

dodo

 

 

[nomadpete]

Move a motion:-

 

That RAAus develop a email list for dissemination of RAAus news items - as a method of board communicating issues arising to members. A "member's advice" page advising members of the board/executive's intention to communicate and asking members permission to be included in the email list shall be included in the magazine, the members response to be returned by email to RAAus office.

 

Purpose of the motion:-

 

To allow RAAus permission to contact members by email.

 

To establish an instantaneous communication path to all (or at least the majority of) members.

 

To promote regular updates within the RAAus community, thereby minimising mis-information and rumours.

 

To allow any board member's voice to reach the membership, either individually or as a group, so long as they take individual responsibility for their email content.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Playing with the email list relates to the Privacy Act, and I'm suspicious that it has been breached twice in the past twelve months by people who were not board members, once in reference to a pilot's status.

 

RAA has a website which can communicate instantly, and that has not been progressed or improved other than some superficial, mainly visual changes. That can quickly be remedied.

 

 

[winsor68]

Move a motion:-That RAAus develop a email list for dissemination of RAAus news items - as a method of board communicating issues arising to members. A "member's advice" page advising members of the board/executive's intention to communicate and asking members permission to be included in the email list shall be included in the magazine, the members response to be returned by email to RAAus office.

 

Purpose of the motion:-

 

To allow RAAus permission to contact members by email.

 

To establish an instantaneous communication path to all (or at least the majority of) members.

 

To promote regular updates within the RAAus community, thereby minimising mis-information and rumours.

 

To allow any board member's voice to reach the membership, either individually or as a group, so long as they take individual responsibility for their email content.

They already do this... it is included in all membership renewals. They just don't use it... except to apparently attempt to gag further openness and communication as evidenced by a couple of claims I have seen recently.

 

 

[Admin]

Move a motion:-That RAAus develop a email list for dissemination of RAAus news items

RAAus had an email list many years ago however not only was it eventually commandeered by a handful of people for their own commercial gain by continual promotion of their products in return emails, but also the legal implications for RAAus were a major concern.

In establishing a new email list, can you imagine the repercussions the very first minute that any RAAus Committee Member intervenes with moderation, or as we have seen here by making a comment that some members disagree with, or any attempt to stop any RAAus member from accessing it or using it (member's rights)...look how they tried to stop me from flying, imagine this on something easy like just an email list, and note the time it takes out of a person's day and night to monitor and manage it. Although I am bias in saying this due to having this site, but in reality, an RAAus email list will eventually bite RAAus in a very severe way...they are better off, in my opinion, in making constant and very frequent 1 way communication statements to members on their own web site to keep the members informed then any 2 way email list.

 

Items of communication that are made by RAAus could then be discussed on here and that way the RAAus Committee can see a true view on what the members want or think then to open the Association, and themselves, to severe repercussions. I have said in the past many times to previous RAAus Committees that this site was always open to entering in to a MoU (Memorandum of Understanding) that would see the both of us working together for the betterment of all RAAus members and the Recreational Aviation Industry in general, we had something like this unofficially when Lee was at the helm, however this can't be done till we see a complete change of attitude and approach that the Committee takes towards EVERYTHING!

 

Please note that I say the above with a bias but mostly with the knowledge and experience gained over many years providing RAAus members with this unbiased resource free from RAAus intervention

 

 

[Admin]

A point of clarification just in case there are people out there that are unaware of the differences between an Email List and a Forum:

 

1. An Email List is where users send an email to a single point and that point distributes that email unconditionally to everyone in the email list...Email Lists were the old style of forums and hence the birth of forums

 

2. A Forum is were you have threads and users create posts in that thread using forum software and users go to a web address to access the different posts in the different threads in the different forums

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Ian: The MOA/U is a sound and innovative way to link like organisations whether they be non-profit or for profit. With the rules of engagement set out it and agreed to, it provides smaller operations the opportunity to work cooperatively and share the rewards. It is now happening in the Australian small business sector on a much more regular basis.

 

Pete

 

 

[Admin]

Ian: The MOA/U is a sound and innovative way to link like organisations whether they be non-profit or for profit. With the rules of engagement set out it and agreed to, it provides smaller operations the opportunity to work cooperatively and share the rewards. It is now happening in the Australian small business sector on a much more regular basis.Pete

Pete, I can remember back many years at NatFly when it was at Narromine and the RAAus President was John Gardon. I initiated a meeting with John, Lee and Dave Caban on the possibility of RAAus and Recreational Flying enter into a MoU between us however they denied working with this site to promote recreational aviation to all and to help all RAAus members in any way this site could.

The offer was then made again at a subsequent NatFly plus even by emails with the last offer (by emailed letter) being made 14 months ago...that last offer didn't even get a reply but I did hear back on the side that Runciman did say some derogatory statements about this to other Committee Members.

 

I firmly believe that this site, this resource, could as it has in the past be an incredible asset for RAAus and the entire recreational aviation community in the way that this site is setup and the way it operates but the RAAus Committee needs to be completely reformed first before a MoU can be considered now...imagine would ANY of the posts made in the Governing Bodies forum here be allowed on a biased RAAus established Email List or Forums?...imagine Committee Members knowing the identities of the people that have posted what they have here in the Governing Bodies forum...an RAAus run Email List or Forum simply will not work and this is proven by the EAA having their own forums...of ALL the EAA members that are out there, this little old recreational flying site down here in Australia for RAAus members has more registered users on it then the EAA forums in total

 

i.e.:

 

Registered Users:

 

EAA Forums 7,076

 

Rec Fly Forums 7,192

 

Threads:

 

EAA Forums 3,016

 

Rec Fly Forums 37,060

 

Posts

 

EAA Forums 25,532

 

Rec Fly Forums 222,182

 

If it is a dismal failure for EAA with their hundred's of thousands of members, how would RAAus be able to do it better with only 9,000 odd users and WHO will pay for it all...but I am biased from the many years of darn hard work at no cost to the RAAus members and continually being a victim of the RAAus Committee's antics and personal attacks that makes me bitter but more determined to make sure you always have this resource

 

 

[nomadpete]

Again I thank you, Ian, for providing this resource. It is unfortunate that so many of the committee members find the success of your forums to be a threat. That in itself caused many of us users to become suspicious - usually when free speech and honest communication is gagged, it often is because someone somewhere is afraid that their naughty behaviour will be seen.

 

My suggested motion was because individual board members are presently either unwilling or unable (I suspect there is no provision for them to use it) to use the RAAus website to provide timely comprehensive information to members. Also, the website is too public for some information. At times there would be information that is useful to members who are aware of the context, but damaging if taken out of context by an outsider. An email list (with the provision for a member to opt in or out at any time) is a way to broadcast information to a target audience of interested parties.

 

If the mechanism is already there, we should insist that it be used as a step toward transparency.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Furthermore, a forum is a platform for debate, not a platform to broadcast a news bulletin

 

 

[coljones]

A point of clarification just in case there are people out there that are unaware of the differences between an Email List and a Forum:1. An Email List is where users send an email to a single point and that point distributes that email unconditionally to everyone in the email list...Email Lists were the old style of forums and hence the birth of forums

2. A Forum is were you have threads and users create posts in that thread using forum software and users go to a web address to access the different posts in the different threads in the different forums

You can read an email from a list without explicitly logging onto something other than your email. A forum or a news item on a website requires one, generally, to regularly visit and check the website or logon to the forum.

If you check out the RAA website there is a tab called "Events" which is old and doesn't list the EGM at all. (ah, got back to the topic - that feels better)

 

The "Aircraft" tab doesn't have a connector to the "members market"

 

I would like an email from RAA when there is a new announcement or a change to the calender.

 

I prefer the forums for the sort of stuff that happens here but no mail updates as they would really drive me crazy. "What's New" on the forum certainly helps.

 

 

[Tiger]

We used to have an email come out on the RAA site that told us that the RAA site had a change.

 

It was an alert email.

 

We have lost that. It was extremly important for updates for aaircraft maintenance issues.

 

From a safety perspective that must be returned as an option on the RAA site.

 

 

[Admin]

The problem is the layout they or the developer has chosen to use isn't conducive to being user friendly in that way as when you get the email you don't know what was changed unlike the way that John Brandon had it which listed the updated ones on the top of the page...they don't seem to have the knowledge and experience in web development.

 

However you still can get an email alert, I do but I had to do it myself...just log in to your old email alert monitor at:

 

https://www.changedetection.com/login.html

 

and update the details of the page you want to monitor but as I said it will alert you but the RAAus site doesn't tell you what ADs or ANs etc were updated...you have to go to the aircraft you are interested in and see if any have changed, OR if you are a Maintenance person you have to go through every single one to check which ones have changed, OR as they have done before, they can amend a 'notice' and not change the date so you have to check the email notification and see what words may have changed etc.

 

Hope this helps you to stay alert with anything that can effect the safety of your flying but I think reliability or integrity of the RAAus web site is very much questionable now

 

 

[Tiger]

Many thanks. I will try and see if I can get that process to work.