RAAus General Meeting Called

[Guest Tecnam713]

Yes Ozzie and I'm one of these unhappy campers My aircraft has been unregistered since mid December as well as many more at Cessnock We have hired a bus to go to Canberra on the 8th feb to hopefully sort this mess out So far we have about 20 organised as well as about 40 proxy forms. these are important if you are not attending, make sure you give to someone you trust to vote on your behalf Hope to see as many as possible at the meeting

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Got to love democracy when it works! Well done YCNK!

 

 

[Yenn]

So you want a proxy form. As far as I can see there is nothing to vote on yet. The reason for the meeting is to get answers from the board to some questions.

 

May'be I have missed something, in which case I would like someone to put me wise.

 

 

[AlfaRomeo]

Yenn, the purpose of the meeting was set out as to hear from the Board for their handling of the affairs of RA and then have a Q&A session. On the basis of what we find out at the meeting some motions are expected from the floor. If we went to the meeting with motions already written it would prejudge what the Board has to tell us.

 

Giving a proxy to somebody is trusting them to vote as you would if you were there. You would not want to give your proxy to anyone you did not trust or even to somebody you did trust unless you have given them instructions on how you would want them to vote.

 

There are some things it is hard to see that the Board could explain satisfactorily. For example, secrecy. How is it that the first most members found out about four audit failures was when their aircraft was grounded. Or, that for four days the staff were instructed to lie to members and tell them it was due to a computer glitch when it was really due to CASA pulling the right to register aircraft because RA had proven beyond any doubt that they could not be trusted with aircraft registrations.

 

There are other issues that may be explained to the satisfaction of the members present.

 

It is vital for as many to go to the meeting as possible because you can then make up your own mind and even move a motion if you think you have a reason to do so.

 

Also, the meeting will only be a success if it results in a way forward being established. Just sacking the guilty will not fix the fundamental structural issues plaguing RA.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So you want a proxy form. As far as I can see there is nothing to vote on yet. The reason for the meeting is to get answers from the board to some questions.May'be I have missed something, in which case I would like someone to put me wise.

Prior to the AGM a proxy was only of use where the motion put was known in advance. With the changes put forward and voted in at the AGM the motion does not need to be pre known. In fact the legislation we work under requires principles of natural justice to be applied always. Given that motions that may be put forward might well have punitive aspects to them that will be a result of hearing and responding to the explanations provided, it would in my opinion be wrong to circulate these motions before hearing the explanations, in effect saying no matter what you tell us I'm going to put a motion to have you removed, as a possible example.

 

In any event I'm sure people will accept that it's logical to take an action only once you have as much info as you are likely to get. The action should logically be shaped by the info provided shouldn't it?. Furthermore it should be part of a whole package. An individual motion by itself is unlikely to solve all that we have occurring in RAAus at present

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I don't believe we have to let the board explain. We have enough understanding as it is now to call for a motion of no confidence and the boards removal. A further motion of an investigation by the appropriate authority into the RAAus finances and spending of such and of any board member acting outside their powers. Anything else will see this drag on as it has been since the meeting up north.

 

Sharpen the axe use it without remorse and lets totally rebuild.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I don't believe we have to let the board explain. We have enough understanding as it is now to call for a motion of no confidence and the boards removal. A further motion of an investigation by the appropriate authority into the RAAus finances and spending of such and of any board member acting outside their powers. Anything else will see this drag on as it has been since the meeting up north.Sharpen the axe use it without remorse and lets totally rebuild.

Ok, but rebuilding requires more than an Axe, in fact wielding the axe isnt building anything rather destroying what was there already. Not that Im saying that might not be required, but when we move past the Axe stage what do you think we need and how are we going to get it?

 

I ask in that the group Im part of are as you would expect working that angle more so than the wield the Axe angle.....So what do you, and others want to see such that we end up with a better outcome than if we did nothing? In my personl view anything better will have to be engineered, it wont just happen of its own accord!

 

Andy

 

 

[kaz3g]

I don't believe we have to let the board explain. We have enough understanding as it is now to call for a motion of no confidence and the boards removal. A further motion of an investigation by the appropriate authority into the RAAus finances and spending of such and of any board member acting outside their powers. Anything else will see this drag on as it has been since the meeting up north.Sharpen the axe use it without remorse and lets totally rebuild.

Hi Ozzie

 

I hear your pain and understand your anger, but the rules clearly require the application of natural justice principles and that means criticisms need to be put AND rebuttals listened to before making a decision as to the actions to be taken.

 

That doesn't mean that notices of motions proposed can't be circulated; it means they have to be couched in conditional terms.

 

This General meeting asks Mr Runciman:

 

Is it true that he resigned from his position as President AND NQ representative by emil sent to the Secretary on or about (date); and

 

If it is true, did he have clear legal advice that he could be validly reinstated as President in those specific circumstances and can he now produce a copy of that advice;

 

If he did not have such specific legal advice confirming his continued tenure, on what basis does he now hold himself out be the President and commit the Association in contractual and other matters; and

 

Having regard to the multiple failures of governance during the last two years, including ......, can he now explain why he should not be removed from office by majority vote of the assembled members?

 

Something like that...?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

You buy a crappy house in a great area that looks like it could be given the once over to make it comfy but the obvious comes to light when the wireing keeps shorting and the water pipes keep bursting and the roof keeps leaking. yep far easier to knock down and rebuild. less tears and cash in the long term. Same goes for this mess. If we don't grit our teeth and go for a immeadiate overhaul then it will keep on festering and the current instigators will keep trying to put a wedge into the reconstruction. We have a chance to start with a clean slate. How well that is up to the members. Put in an administrator until the new positions are filled, run new board elections. Day to day will handle itself with existing office staff. Lot of work in front of those willing to go for the positions but it will be worth it. If we let those who caused this mess stay and continue to run the show all that will happen is a whole heap of paper shuffelling and carefully worded speeches until the next set of problems arise in 5 years time.

 

Real shame we lost Tony Hayes a while back, he predicted all this. His posts on this mess would have been long and straight for the throat and he would be saying the same as i. Rip it down and start with a fresh team. I've still got that email from him BTW.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

How long will this process of natural justice take? Dealing with masters of spin here.

 

Bet there will be a lot more members voting next time around. hey

 

 

[coljones]

Hi OzzieI hear your pain and understand your anger, but the rules clearly require the application of natural justice principles and that means criticisms need to be put AND rebuttals listened to before making a decision as to the actions to be taken.

 

That doesn't mean that notices of motions proposed can't be circulated; it means they have to be couched in conditional terms.

 

...

 

....

 

..

 

etc

 

....

 

kaz

This General meeting asks Mr Runciman:

 

Is it true that he resigned from his position as President AND NQ representative by email sent to the Secretary on or about (date); and

 

If it is true, did he have clear legal advice that he could be validly reinstated as President NQ Rep in those specific circumstances and can he now produce a copy of that advice;

 

If he did not have such specific legal advice confirming his continued tenure, on what basis does he now hold himself out be the President NQ Rep and commit the Association in contractual and other matters; and

 

Having regard to the multiple failures of governance during the last two years, including ......, can he now explain why he should not be removed from office the Board by majority vote of the assembled members?

 

Something like that...?

 

Col

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

'Show Cause' is the term CASA uses and i think it is appropriate here. As like CASA does fax it to him at 4.55pm on a Friday.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Yes Ozzie and I'm one of these unhappy campers My aircraft has been unregistered since mid December as well as many more at Cessnock We have hired a bus to go to Canberra on the 8th feb to hopefully sort this mess out So far we have about 20 organised as well as about 40 proxy forms. these are important if you are not attending, make sure you give to someone you trust to vote on your behalf Hope to see as many as possible at the meeting

Perhaps we need to start sharing travel plans, organise car pools or more bus trips to cut costs, increase attendance.

 

Anyone offer me a lift from NW NSW?

 

 

[Spriteah]

Ladies and Gents particullarly Victorian members. I wish to advise you at this time that the RAA board is in discussion about the upcoming meeting in February. An issues raised is that several board members are suggesting that they do not believe a motion can be raised from the floor on the day of the meeting. It is based on their interpretation of our constitution. I wish to inform the Vic members that I have indicated my disapproval at the interpretation and I have also suggested that they seek advice from a Lawyer who specialises in constitutional law.

 

If you have any questions concerning this issue I suggest you consult with your elected reps. I will update this forum when and if more information comes to light.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian RAA representative.

 

 

[dodo]

Ladies and Gents particullarly Victorian members. I wish to advise you at this time that the RAA board is in discussion about the upcoming meeting in February. An issues raised is that several board members are suggesting that they do not believe a motion can be raised from the floor on the day of the meeting. It is based on their interpretation of our constitution. I wish to inform the Vic members that I have indicated my disapproval at the interpretation and I have also suggested that they seek advice from a Lawyer who specialises in constitutional law.If you have any questions concerning this issue I suggest you consult with your elected reps. I will update this forum when and if more information comes to light.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian RAA representative.

Thanks.

I think that a sensible discussion of that issue by the board is useful, and this sort of information is really useful. Publication of the outcome of the board's discussion and associated reasons (eg the legal opininion) would be great.

 

It may sound ungrateful - it isn't meant to be - but publication of this sort of thing on the RA website would go a long way to resolve the complaints over RA secrecy, and probably resolve a lot of issues with RA. Transparency would remove the wilder speculation.

 

thanks again,

 

dodo

 

 

[turboplanner]

Ladies and Gents particullarly Victorian members. I wish to advise you at this time that the RAA board is in discussion about the upcoming meeting in February. An issues raised is that several board members are suggesting that they do not believe a motion can be raised from the floor on the day of the meeting. It is based on their interpretation of our constitution. I wish to inform the Vic members that I have indicated my disapproval at the interpretation and I have also suggested that they seek advice from a Lawyer who specialises in constitutional law.If you have any questions concerning this issue I suggest you consult with your elected reps. I will update this forum when and if more information comes to light.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian RAA representative.

What do they actually think a meeting is for?

 

With that outrageous action, they have probably dug their grave, and pushed the members into a full spill of board members.

 

 

[SOS]

The fact that the Board is even thinking about ways of strangling the Members' wishes, proves that the Board's intention is to "circle the wagons". If they had any real wish to allow the Members to democratically have a say in the running of the Organisation, they would steer any constitutional ambiguity ( if it exists) in favour of the Members' wishes.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Amazing attitude from these people.

 

 

[Admin]

 

(words would just completely fail me)

 

 

[David Isaac]

Ladies and Gents particullarly Victorian members. I wish to advise you at this time that the RAA board is in discussion about the upcoming meeting in February. An issues raised is that several board members are suggesting that they do not believe a motion can be raised from the floor on the day of the meeting. It is based on their interpretation of our constitution. I wish to inform the Vic members that I have indicated my disapproval at the interpretation and I have also suggested that they seek advice from a Lawyer who specialises in constitutional law.If you have any questions concerning this issue I suggest you consult with your elected reps. I will update this forum when and if more information comes to light.

 

Regards,

 

Jim Tatlock

 

Victorian RAA representative.

Jim, the first thing I would like to do is congratulate you on your integrity and temerity to take the bold step you have in publicly positioning yourself against what you perceive as inappropriate Board actions.

Here we have a General Meeting called by the members democratically under the rules of the constitution; with I might add over 300 signatures obtained and countless others whom I speculate may have signed after the formal request for meeting was made.

 

Now we have the Executive and possibly other Board members constructively acting against the members who have called a meeting in good faith. They appear to be to be attempting to argue a technicality that motions from the floor (as opposed to on 'notice') will be ruled out of order. Yet again this is being done in secret and we would not have known had Jim not advised his constituents.

 

This has the distinct appearance of a covert attempt to deny the members a legitimate democratic process at the meeting? The Secretary has already called the meeting and point 4 of the stated 'purpose of the meeting' is: Motions from the floor to be considered, debated and voted”.

 

The 'purpose of the meeting' is required to be published with the notice of the meeting by the constitution. Why are the Board even discussing this as a strategy when the Secretary has already published the 'purpose of the meeting'? If there is an anomaly with the constitution in this regard, why wasn't this raised with those who requested the meeting at the time the request was made and before the notice of meeting was published by the secretary or indeed why not now?

 

If by the Board's own deliberations they determine that motions cannot be 'raised from the floor of the meeting', is the secretary now going to admit that he has illegally called the meeting and be liable for all the associated costs, or is he going to advise those who called the meeting that they need to lodge proposed resolutions to the secretary so that he can give notice to the members within 14 days of the meeting? After all what use is a general Meeting called for stated 'purposes' if motions are not allowed on the day resulting from those stated purposes?

 

Thanks to the recent constitutional changes at the last AGM any member unable to attend due to either cost or tyranny of distance can now nominate a proxy and give his proxy power to vote on any matter as he sees fit. Obviously a member would only give that proxy power to someone he or she trusts. We probably now have the fairest system since incorporation.

 

The question has to be asked ... Are some of the Board completely inept, what kind of message are they sending to the membership? As if it isn't bad enough at the moment, let's compound the problem by attempting to make the members in a general meeting powerless!!!!!

 

EDIT: To add clarity and correct grammar.

 

 

[Guest john]

To All Interested RAAus Members

 

An email has been sent to Paul Middleton today requesting he notify me at his earliest convenience the verse & chapter in the RAAus constitution that prohibits the notification of MOTIONS & VOTING on them at either AGM's or EGM's.

 

If a response is received I will post it on this site.

 

 

[Teckair]

I think it may be a standard thing in many constitutions, motions to be voted on at meetings have to be lodged with the secretary a set time before the meeting, time could be 2 weeks or so depending on the constitution.

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Jim you are exactly the type of board member that the organisation requires at this time of need and at any other time for that matter. I would like to unreservedly praise and support your actions in informing the "unthinking, unenlightened and uniformed minority with personal issues to pursue" (aka the ordinary members of RAAus) on the train of thought of some members of our elected board.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

[Teckair]

Jim might get kicked out of the circle of trust, maybe he can start his own.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You have to love the audacity of the OBC! Takes real balls to go to a meeting planning on rejecting any sort of outcome from the people you are elected to represent.