BPN Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I know it's over kill but I change my oil every 25 hrs and filter every 50. Never have to worry about topping up . Burp when hot and again cold before starting . Just trying to get a long long life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I know it's over kill but I change my oil every 25 hrs and filter every 50. Never have to worry about topping up . Burp when hot and again cold before starting . Just trying to get a long long life. Nothing wrong with the above. Frequent oil changes are great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I know it's over kill but I change my oil every 25 hrs and filter every 50. Never have to worry about topping up . Burp when hot and again cold before starting . Just trying to get a long long life. It was my understanding the 'burping' was just to pump any remaining oil from the engine to the reservoir to accurately check the oil level. I didn't think there was any need to burp except when checking oil levels. Is there another reason to burp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It was my understanding the 'burping' was just to pump any remaining oil from the engine to the reservoir to accurately check the oil level. I didn't think there was any need to burp except when checking oil levels. Is there another reason to burp? That is correct, it is just for what you have said. It is not for any other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Every 50 hrs for me oil & filter, oil is cheap, find it actually burps a lot better hot, next flight check the level and burp it again to see if the level has risen or fallen with that next burp Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 That is correct, it is just for what you have said. It is not for any other reason. Yeah I thought so but I think some people actually think they are burping it to make it work better or feel better like a baby. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzietriker Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Right from day one we were advised to keep our oil at that minimum level. Any more than that and we tend to have the level drop. At minimum level I reckon we have added less than a litre over 700 hours. Hi K-Man, thanks for your post - can you tell me who gave you this advice? Was it Rotax/LAME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 It was my understanding the 'burping' was just to pump any remaining oil from the engine to the reservoir to accurately check the oil level. I didn't think there was any need to burp except when checking oil levels. Is there another reason to burp? OK, yes you need to burp the motor to return the oil to the reservoir and you need to burp twice if you want that to be accurate. But there is another really important reason for burping. If you don't burp and oil has seeped past the rings into the cylinder you can cause big damage. If I'm right, the burp is air that has been pushed past the piston taking any oil with it back into the system. Check out the manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hi K-Man, thanks for your post - can you tell me who gave you this advice? Was it Rotax/LAME? It was the the guy (level 2 and a mechanic) servicing the aircraft but I have had the advice confirmed by other Rotax owners. If it drops below the lower level I add sufficient to bring it back to that level, however I have probably only added oil on a handful of occasions over the 8 years or so we have had the aircraft. It just seems to stabilise at that level. I did have the gearbox changed by Floods at one point and again, that was the oil level. I can't remember if we actually discussed it but that was how much he put in. Give Floods a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Different aircraft can have their oil tanks at different heights in relation to the engine. Rotax specify a range I think. A higher placed tank may run a lower oil level to stop oil draining into the engine sump. Be careful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzietriker Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Different aircraft can have their oil tanks at different heights in relation to the engine. Rotax specify a range I think.A higher placed tank may run a lower oil level to stop oil draining into the engine sump. Be careful. Down under Thanks for your post, in my case - the oil tank sits slightly below the engine and can be ruled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 If ever any significant amount of oil got past the rings the motor would show blue smoke on starting. I've never seen that happen with a Rotax. The engine has no return (scavenge ) oil pump. Crankcase pressure returns the oil. After shut down some oil drains to the bottom of the motor. IF you topped up to the full mark without burping after the motor starts you could be overfull. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Hi Nuzza & everyone,I have the exact problem, my 912ULS engine is somehow using oil. After 25 hours since last oil change, I have lost 200ml of oil. My engine is 350 hours young. I can't see any leaks nor oil burn stains on prop or tail plane. Therefore I can't see evidence of it burning or leaking oil, and YES I do gurgle the oil tank as per publication instructions. I have never lost any oil until now, is it hiding somewhere? Can someone please tell me what the hell is going on? What oil are you using Ozzie and are you burping fully and correctly ?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It was my understanding the 'burping' was just to pump any remaining oil from the engine to the reservoir to accurately check the oil level. I didn't think there was any need to burp except when checking oil levels. Is there another reason to burp? Not really...mainly to put the oil into the oil tank for checking......as prev stated the act of turning you engine through by hand does no harm and puts a bit of oil on everything prior to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It was the the guy (level 2 and a mechanic) servicing the aircraft but I have had the advice confirmed by other Rotax owners. If it drops below the lower level I add sufficient to bring it back to that level, however I have probably only added oil on a handful of occasions over the 8 years or so we have had the aircraft. It just seems to stabilise at that level. I did have the gearbox changed by Floods at one point and again, that was the oil level. I can't remember if we actually discussed it but that was how much he put in. Give Floods a call. Rotax service manual recommends that the oil level be maintained at half to 3/4 on the oil dipstick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Just for your info and imput....my standard oil change procedure. Warm engine to normal operating temperature . Burp engine straight after shutdown to ensure max amount of oil in tank. Drop oil into modified open top oil container from tank bottom drain. Note amount of oil drained on oil container quantity indicator. Replace and lock wire tank oil drain. Remove, check and clean magnetic plug..replace and lock wire. Fill oil tank with same amount of new oil that was drained. ( usually 2.5-3.0 lts on my installation....may vary) Make maintenance logbook entry. Top up oil quantity on dipstick after first run or flight after re burping. Using this proceedure every time, the oil pressure comes up normally on startup. I never bother draining oil cooler or drain at bottom of engine case. To do so risks introducing air into oil system and would also require the carrying out of 'Rotax engine purging procedure' service bulletin unnecessarily. Also adds additional risks of oil line leaks or failure after removal/ refit. Best left secured and undisturbed. The above procedure has worked now for almost 1000 hrs on my own 100hp ULS, and many others belonging to my customers. The small amount of oil left un- drained in oil cooler, engine galleries and gearbox is insignificant in my opinion considering the high quality of today's oils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Rotax service manual recommends that the oil level be maintained at half to 3/4 on the oil dipstick. Depends on definition. The oil level in the oil tank should be between the two marks (max./min.) on the oil dipstick, but must never fall below the min. mark. See Service Bulletin SB-912-040, "Introduction of a new oil dipstick", latest issue. http://www.flyrotax.com/portaldata/5/dokus/d01996.pdf When cold I keep it just above the minimum. During standard engine operation, the oil level should be mid-way between the max. and min. marks, as at higher oil level (over servicing), oil will escape via the venting passage see also SI-27-1997, “oil level check“, latest issue. Difference between “max.“ and “min“. - mark = 0,45 l (0.95 liq.pt) During standard operation the oil is warm and between the marks.If I put extra oil in it just comes out the breather and slowly drops to the lower mark where it stays stable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty 1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Depends on definition. Define the "Note" at the end of the instructions for checking the oil level from the Operators Manual. 1 Check oil level and replenish as required. 2 NOTE: Propeller shouldn't be turned exces- sively reverse the normal direction of engine rotation. Remove oil tank cover, turn the propeller slowly by hand in direction of engine rotation several times to pump oil from the engine into the oil tank. 3 It is essential to build up compression in the combustion chamber. Maintain the pressure for a few seconds to let the gas flow via the piston rings into the crankcase. The speed of rotation is not important as the pressure and the amount of gas which is transfered into the crankcase 4 This process is finished when air is returning back to the oil tank and can be noticed by a gurgle from the open oil tank. 5 Install oil tank cap. NOTE: The oil level should be in the upper half (be- tween the “50%“ and the “max“ mark) and should never falls below the “min“ mark. Prior to long flights oil should be added so that the oil level reaches the “max“ mark. Avoid oil levels exceeding the “max“ mark, since excess oil could be poured out through the venting system. Difference between max.- and min.- mark = 0.45 litre (0.95 liq pt). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzietriker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What oil are you using Ozzie and are you burping fully and correctly ?...... Hi Maj, I am using Aeroshell Sport Plus 4 oil. Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 But there is another really important reason for burping. If you don't burp and oil has seeped past the rings into the cylinder you can cause big damage. Do you have a reference for this other reason for burping? If the oil is just at the bottom of the flat on the dip stick I don't bother burping because the level is only going to go up. I have never done any damage but I would be interested to know if I need to change my routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingphot Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Do you have a reference for this other reason for burping? If the oil is just at the bottom of the flat on the dip stick I don't bother burping because the level is only going to go up. I have never done any damage but I would be interested to know if I need to change my routine. Must reply to this. There are three reasons to burp engine before cold start Check oil level Check compression Coat internals Oil levels need to be checked after burping to blow oil from sump to oil tank. Oil level then needs to be on the flat and preferably in the upper half. Compression check is an important check for overall engine condition. If you feel less compression than you are used to, don't fly but check further. Coating internals is important as oil runs down the side of cylinder and piston and winding over spreads remaining oil over surfaces while engine is not under load and is a good practice for long engine life. Hope this helps to answer questions Cheers, Bill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Here's something I'll throw up in the air. I think there are 2 return oil points on the bottom of the engine. One for tractor and one for pusher config. Check the right one is piped up. If you are checking the oil level, is the engine level? Could the engine (or whole aircraft) be on a slight angle and some oil is running away from the drain point and staying in the engine block? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Different aircraft can have their oil tanks at different heights in relation to the engine. Rotax specify a range I think.A higher placed tank may run a lower oil level to stop oil draining into the engine sump. Be careful. The key wording here is "oil level", not tank level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-man Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Do you have a reference for this other reason for burping? If the oil is just at the bottom of the flat on the dip stick I don't bother burping because the level is only going to go up. I have never done any damage but I would be interested to know if I need to change my routine. I think there is more need to burp the longer the motor has been unused if I recall correctly.Not a Rotax site but ... http://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/8662/why-rotax-912-burps-the-tank This one is more what I was getting at. I'd forgotten the term 'hydraulic lock'. Apparently not common but if there is oil or even fuel in the cylinder you will feel the resistance as you wind. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=321023 If the oil level is on the flat to start I won't wind 'til it burps but I will still wind a few turns to feel everything is right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planesmaker Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I had a cylinder hydraulic lock when left several months when overseas. Oil tank was mounted high. I remounted oil tank lower. I had to remove plugs to purge oil from cylinder. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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