rankamateur Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I realise this is an old thread but what are traps when building a "fire break". I have one 650m long for gyro use. It's currently just a Mowed section in a grass pasture paddock. Soil in North Western nsw is soft self mulching black soil. I'm thinking of having it graded with side drains and formed centre. Then considering planting a low quick spreading grass like couch. Anyone have thoughts on this? Mine is at Coolatai, started out just as you describe, was plenty good enough for most STOL planes, I did my training of it and it was described by Phil Martin from Superair as being in the top 3% he flies super off. So I tried to make it better Be very careful grading that you don't form gutter or banks that concentrate the flow of water and make the peddles wobble if you get out of line when you are landing. I graded mine myself and left a bank of dirt well off to the side of my cross strip which acted to gather and divert a significant amount of water straight down the middle, a second bank on the other side wouldn't let it off until I busted out about 200 m further down. A fair bit of consideration of letting water follow its natural flow is required. You don't need a crowned up road to land on, it may be more weatherproof but will take a lot more skill to stay up on top of, then give you a lively ride when you don't succeed. As far as grass variety goes, I haven't found anything that doesn't form tussock, is drought proof, frost proof and grows all year round, so just mow the native grass, which has proved it will grow there, and just mow it low to keep it smooth. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schouppy Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Mine is at Coolatai, started out just as you describe, was plenty good enough for most STOL planes, I did my training of it and it was described by Phil Martin from Superair as being in the top 3% he flies super off. So I tried to make it betterBe very careful grading that you don't form gutter or banks that concentrate the flow of water and make the peddles wobble if you get out of line when you are landing. I graded mine myself and left a bank of dirt well off to the side of my cross strip which acted to gather and divert a significant amount of water straight down the middle, a second bank on the other side wouldn't let it off until I busted out about 200 m further down. A fair bit of consideration of letting water follow its natural flow is required. You don't need a crowned up road to land on, it may be more weatherproof but will take a lot more skill to stay up on top of, then give you a lively ride when you don't succeed. As far as grass variety goes, I haven't found anything that doesn't form tussock, is drought proof, frost proof and grows all year round, so just mow the native grass, which has proved it will grow there, and just mow it low to keep it smooth. Thanks Rankamateur. What about rolling/packing the black soil. At the moment the paddock is soft and just mowing it leaves gutters. I thought to grade it to a crown then roll the shyt out of it to get some form of compaction. If I just mow it and roll it I'm concerned I will end up with a depressed strip that holds water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Often heavy black soil is self mulching, tends to decompact itself through wet and dry cycles and stores moisture well - thats why its great for farming 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 And great for getting bogged in. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 And great for getting bogged in. Nev This is the worry. I have a gravel road nearby but I don't suppose that is always an option. The crown is always a challenge on a formed road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Drainage might be required and add some stuff to the sticky black stuff. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 When I investigated with the Lake Macquarie as to where in the rural zoned part of the "City" an airstrip could be built. They had two Rural zones, R1 and R2. R1 was essentially small block rural residential and the other was ordinary rural purposes. Happy for me to build an airstrip in R2 as long as I did a full DA for an AIRPORT! Frightened me off from ever considering and now live in an apartment and drive to the airport. But, an Airpark has some advantages over your own airstrip. Apart from the possibility of a better airport facility (all weather, lights, length, cross-runway etc.) there is the camaraderie of living amongst fellow aviators. Chances are a non-aviator partner would find this more acceptable than living remotely in the bush with not much access to neighbours and shops. For all that, I'd prefer a 100 acres and my own strip. I think the liability issues can be reasonably well sorted with some legal advice and the right disclaimers, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Incidentally, I had the pleasure of meeting DWF and his wife in the Hunter Valley when they were over this way. We have a very pleasant lunch together and I'm keen to pay them a visit on my travels west that I hope to do later this year after the new Sling arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 When I investigated with the Lake Macquarie as to where in the rural zoned part of the "City" an airstrip could be built. They had two Rural zones, R1 and R2. R1 was essentially small block rural residential and the other was ordinary rural purposes. Happy for me to build an airstrip in R2 as long as I did a full DA for an AIRPORT! Frightened me off from ever considering and now live in an apartment and drive to the airport.But, an Airpark has some advantages over your own airstrip. Apart from the possibility of a better airport facility (all weather, lights, length, cross-runway etc.) there is the camaraderie of living amongst fellow aviators. Chances are a non-aviator partner would find this more acceptable than living remotely in the bush with not much access to neighbours and shops. For all that, I'd prefer a 100 acres and my own strip. I think the liability issues can be reasonably well sorted with some legal advice and the right disclaimers, etc. My local council in NSW in their LEP (Local Environment Plan) has 2 rural categories - RU1 and RU2 and its a mine field - heliports, airports, airstrips, Air transport facilities all variously prohibited or requiring DA ... so to avoid the DA you have to avoid the definitions applying ... I am looking at avoiding the least worst of being an airstrip which is defined as "a single runway for the landing, taking off or parking of aeroplanes for private aviation only, but does not include an airport, heliport or helipad" by having no runway markers, no runway numbers, just a nice smooth paddock with occasional sheep features - after all it's a paddock not an airstrip. Oh and getting on with the neighbours ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Be very careful doing things like that. In the aftermath of an accident, all those things are sifted through for the opportunity of a lawsuit. Same goes with the CASA "guide only" words; they are only a part of shifting the liability to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 What about finding an old property whith an existing strip , in NSW ?? Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 Not terribly worried - I do not insure the airframes so there is no issue of insurance getting niggly for me as I only have the RAA certificate insurance for the external risks - there is no requirement to operated from an approved airfield or established airstrip so as long as its just me operating out of the field ... and it does meet the requirements for safe operation of the aircraft - I only take 50m to get airborne in the single seater and landing from 15m to full stop is under 150m ... I have 350m of paddock in all directions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Make something others might use and you have more liability. YOU don't need much. Use your front drive. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingVizsla Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Thanks Rankamateur. What about rolling/packing the black soil. At the moment the paddock is soft and just mowing it leaves gutters. I thought to grade it to a crown then roll the shyt out of it to get some form of compaction. If I just mow it and roll it I'm concerned I will end up with a depressed strip that holds water. You could consider lime or cement stabilisation (a common practice in low-cost road construction with poor cohesive soils). I have done both in Western Qld. Lime is not the agricultural variety, it is quicklime or hydrated lime. It only works with certain soils, usually reactive clays (clays swell and shrink/crack when wet & dry). A soil lab can test a sample to tell you if it will work. Lime takes time (months) to reach its full strength but that is weighed against the cost and efficiency of construction. Read about it here http://www.auststab.com.au/technotes/TNote01.pdf Cement works with nearly anything I have come across. A soil lab can test to determine the % for target strength, but from my experience 1.5% - 2.5% will get you a road surface suitable for Heavy Vehicles and traffic volumes for a minor rural highway. The cement powder is spread over the area to be treated, then mixed in to your calculated depth - for road construction that is 120mm deep. Just add water - then the orchestra cranks up - mix, roll, roll, grade, roll, trim as quickly as possible (don't leave it till next weekend) as the chemical reaction starts with water (provided it was dry when spread) and it will set like - well concrete - but not as hard. Read about it here http://www.auststab.com.au/technotes/TNote05.pdf You can construct an all-weather road down the middle of you paddock - which you would need in wet weather for the tractor and other "essential transport" and you may be able to do it using existing farm equipment - spreader, tynes, spray tanks, towed roller etc. I get the stuff in tankers, but it does come in one tonne bags. If you can, try to get it level and a small slope to allow water to run off, and pay attention to drainage. Sue 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Not terribly worried - I do not insure the airframes so there is no issue of insurance getting niggly for me as I only have the RAA certificate insurance for the external risks - there is no requirement to operated from an approved airfield or established airstrip so as long as its just me operating out of the field ... and it does meet the requirements for safe operation of the aircraft - I only take 50m to get airborne in the single seater and landing from 15m to full stop is under 150m ... I have 350m of paddock in all directions. The "external risks can run to a couple of million if someone is killed, around $7 million if someone becomes a quadriplegic; the RAA policy only covers you for a minor to medium injury. You need to read the regulations again, paying close attention to the way CASA has left the responsibility with you to determine what is an ALA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The "external risks can run to a couple of million if someone is killed, around $7 million if someone becomes a quadriplegic; the RAA policy only covers you for a minor to medium injury.You need to read the regulations again, paying close attention to the way CASA has left the responsibility with you to determine what is an ALA Hard to see that the risk is significant at the paddock ... if I am going to run into people and make them paraplegic I am well away from the paddock ... and then the issue of where I took off is immaterial to the insurance coverage. As far as risk goes I and my husband are happy with the deicisions and that's all that's needed. Cheers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I don't know why "we" all tend to complicate this matter. A smart person would NOT be building an airport or an ALA or a runway. A smart person is simply grading a paddock to meet the dimensional guidelines for an ALA as detailed by the CASA guide (if you want to be covered by your insurance), or any other suitable dimension if insurance is no concern. You will then use that paddock on which to land and takeoff in your personal aircraft in exactly the same manner as you would build a road on your property to to allow you access with all your heavy equipment. Friends visiting you could use your paddock to land in the same manner they would use your private road on your property to gain access to you. Do you seriously need a DA to put a trafficable surface around your rural property and do you seriously need Council approval to drive your harvester, tractor etc across you paddock,? Do you need Council approval for a visitor to use your road into your property? It is NOT a runway, it is a paddock on which you land and takeoff and as long as the paddock meets the ALA guidelines for slope and dimensions and has a means of indicating wind, your insurance will cover you and it is none of Councils business. For God's sake don't tell anyone you are building an airport, because you are NOT. It should be readily arguable that landing and taking off in an aircraft from your property is as much a normal rural activity for us as is driving a truck, tractor or car on and off your property. But please be sensible about flying right over your neighbour's house without their approval or they could make life difficult for you in the same manner as they could complain about driving down the road with no exhaust on your car. Simple common sense folks ... Building an airport is an entirely different matter and good luck attempting to get a DA approved for that ... 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boleropilot Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 g'day youse mob - seems about a decade since I was here last... my WB582 Drifter is currently getting some TLC in Boonah, 'new' motor (blue head 582, 500 hours from new) new u/carriage legs, etc. etc. when she flies again I hope to have some nice smooth grass on my 'radio control aircraft' flying area, in the final stages of construction it's 200m long - approach from the south looks ok, from the north it will be approaching from the north-west and a little right turn (about 135 degrees) on late final I'm retiring on 16th October this year so I'm looking forward to doing some local flying - still gotta find some dollars for the shed, until then 0455 will stay in Boonah I've been in/out of The Scary Place (part owned by Ian Walker of flying Tigers fame) and I reckon Woolooman International Paddock will be a doddle compared to that!!! I'll get some pix moved from my 'phone to the computer and post a couple - apart from that, feel free to fly over to have a peek... cheers BP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I put in a DA with my local council for an "airstrip" and a "hangar", both were approved for that purpose. I did not want to have to fight them down the track if I ruffled their feathers, much easier to get the approval then you are in a stronger position legally and to combat any future complaints. Been in operation now a couple of years and no dramas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I put in a DA with my local council for an "airstrip" and a "hangar", both were approved for that purpose. I did not want to have to fight them down the track if I ruffled their feathers, much easier to get the approval then you are in a stronger position legally and to combat any future complaints.Been in operation now a couple of years and no dramas. Great outcome. I assume you put the DA in on a substantial rural property? An airstrip on a substantial rural property is regarded as normal rural activity in planning terms. How did you define "airstrip" in your DA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Airstrip was for private use and I need to keep a record of use , my log book accounts for my use and a visitors book in the hangar satisfies invited guests. Its not a large property but there are three other private strips within a ten km radius so precedent had been set. I know there is talk that approval to operate on your own land is not required but my philosophy is keep everyone on side you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles5128 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 On a side note a mate of mine has a property that he was talking about putting a strip on however his proximity to the local aerodrome may prohibit that, I recall that you couldn't operate from a strip within 8nm, i would be happy to be corrected on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 On a side note a mate of mine has a property that he was talking about putting a strip on however his proximity to the local aerodrome may prohibit that, I recall that you couldn't operate from a strip within 8nm, i would be happy to be corrected on that. I take off and land on my farm tracks or ploughed paddocks and I am within 4 nm of YQDI. I've never heard that rule but would be interested if it was true. Good radio calls before takeoff are a must when you know that the trainers often overfly at 500ft:hide: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 On a side note a mate of mine has a property that he was talking about putting a strip on however his proximity to the local aerodrome may prohibit that, I recall that you couldn't operate from a strip within 8nm, i would be happy to be corrected on that. Doesnt apply to ALAs. you can have them next door within reason. Most Council strips are ALAs except I note that Quirindi is licensed, probably only because of a required condition of BAE for the training they conduct there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Airstrip was for private use and I need to keep a record of use , my log book accounts for my use and a visitors book in the hangar satisfies invited guests. Its not a large property but there are three other private strips within a ten km radius so precedent had been set. I know there is talk that approval to operate on your own land is not required but my philosophy is keep everyone on side you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I think it was fortunate the precedent had been set in your case. If no precedent exists you need to be careful where you put the honey ... LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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