storchy neil Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Observations and trends •Second half of 2012 had a dramatic decease in Fatal Accidents •Fatal Accident Rate increased dramatically in first half of 2013 •RA-Aus represents 48% of industry and 61% of Fatal Accidents •HGFA represents 13% of industry and 28% of Fatal Accidents •Amateur Built/Experimental aircraft operational statistics and accident rate are being worked on by SSO to better understand the accident rates. •Two main trends emerge: •Human Factors (ADM) •Deliberate Violations who is to blame neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Most Accidents are random, that's why they are called Accidents. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I wouldn't be to concerned. Training standards hasn't changed in that time. It's just cluster of accidents nothing more , nothing less IMO . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalman Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Aeroplanes have been killing people since the beginning , and pilots that fly for fun are more likely to get killed than professionals ,it doesn't take much to work out why, there is a risk when you do anything and the only way to get rid of the risk totally is to stop the risky venture,,,,,no thanks ,I may die in a plane ,I may get killed in a car ,,,,,I may even die in my own bed ,,,regardless I'm going to die someday ,,,,,,so the big question for me "have I really lived"?,,,,,I appreciate all the "we must be safer or we'll lose our priveledges" ,but there will never be a 100% fatality free pursuit as long as we are still human and leave the ground! We can do everything possible to make ourselves as safe as possible ,but there will always be a risk,,,,,, Matty 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarby Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 There are two ways to think about this. One is to say "don't worry" which in effect means you don't learn or improve. The second is to think and to make change. The RAA % is way too high and it is that type of stat that gives us a bad name, bad enough that one day someone may want to regulate us a bit more. We need to stop seeing this as random or unavoidable, and do more to decrease it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem is you are dealing with a lot of old guys, that old saying you can't teach an old dog new trick rings true. Regardless of what you say, they won't listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdarby Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Sad but true FT. But we need some sort of circuit breaker. I think that the introduction of new training like Human Factors is a step in the right direction, to make sure that the new generation see things differently. It is one drop in the bucket but a start. I for one am getting safer as I get older, it is too much stress to take chances anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Even the death of a friend or colleague won't change them. Trust me, I've seen it first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The problem is you are dealing with a lot of old guys, that old saying you can't teach an old dog new trick rings true. Regardless of what you say, they won't listen. Hey I resemble that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 [tornado, post: 402522, member: 5669"]The problem is you are dealing with a lot of old guys, that old saying you can't teach an old dog new trick rings true. Regardless of what you say, they won't listen. Generalisation and guesswork do not solve problems FT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Generalisation and guesswork do not solve problems FT. It all starts when the government starts blaming me for other's actions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 The problem is you are dealing with a lot of old guys, that old saying you can't teach an old dog new trick rings true. Regardless of what you say, they won't listen. what a load of dog doodie...from an older type. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Nothing much here of any use. It would be good if people say what they mean rather than a sideways allusion to it. Are old pilots assumed to be less sagfe than young ones. It would be good to see the statistics of the fatal accidents. Were the pilots young or old? What sort of experience did they have? What were the causes of the accidents? My opinion is that the Human Resources training is nothing more than trying to tart up what should have been tought way back. I flew for 40 years without hearing the HR words, and couldn't have passed the test without reading the syllabus. But that was not because of my lack of safety knowledge, but a lack on knowledge of the useless (in my opinion) buzz words, such as SHELL. I worked for years in the construction industry and experienced the massive growth of the safety industry, but what I saw was that the new workers didn't know where to look for danger and the experts were so book bound that they were a liability. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 what a load of dog doodie...from an older type. Well give us an example of how you have changed your flying in the last 12 months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yeah. Prove you are not guilty. You are old so you must be no good. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yeah. Prove you are not guilty. You are old so you must be no good. Nev We made to advanced years, the younger ones still have to prove they can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well give us an example of how you have changed your flying in the last 12 months If what you do (your own personal processes, procedures and policy), has been keeping you alive for the last X amount of years, why would you change it? (unless there is an obvious benefit) There have been times I have changed things (not necessarily flying related) have changed things to attempt to fall into line, and found it ineffective or dangerous, so I just revert back to what I know works. So far , so good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Yeah. Prove you are not guilty. You are old so you must be no good. Nev One of the best and smoothest military helicopter maintenance test pilots I've ever had the pleasure to work with only retired recently, I dunno how old he was, but I would guess on the far side of 70, probably closer to eighty. His flying skill was far better than those many years younger. I think it's a matter of being self aware. A young person with no insight will probably grow into an old person with no insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 We made to advanced years, the younger ones still have to prove they can. But give me an example of how you improved your skills recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 FT, So in YOUR opinion when do you get to this old age you are talking about... in years please...how old are you FT... maybe you are to old in IMO...you first how have you improved your skills in the last month... David 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Observations and trends •Second half of 2012 had a dramatic decease in Fatal Accidents •Fatal Accident Rate increased dramatically in first half of 2013 •RA-Aus represents 48% of industry and 61% of Fatal Accidents •HGFA represents 13% of industry and 28% of Fatal Accidents •Amateur Built/Experimental aircraft operational statistics and accident rate are being worked on by SSO to better understand the accident rates. •Two main trends emerge: •Human Factors (ADM) •Deliberate Violations who is to blame neil So........what about this maintenance issue some are carrying on about, where is does it rate? No-one seems to be answering that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 FT,So in YOUR opinion when do you get to this old age you are talking about... in years please...how old are you FT... maybe you are to old in IMO...you first how have you improved your skills in the last month... David I'm glad you asked, 48, that saying that you enter your forties a young man and exit it as an old man is true, I can feel it. This year I really got a better knowledge of turbulence and how to identify Varga. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarly Gnu Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Funny I always pictured you as much older, I have a mental picture of an ageing marxist hippy sitting on a busted couch in a loincloth having a toke. But I'm switching off that mental image now before we get to the bit about identifying Viagra. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I have this mental image of Gnu, the "Fox News" demographic. Obviously, you two not getting enough action from your Filipino wives? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGL Fox Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well IMO FT you are old.... not far from 50...maybe you should do the human factors course again just to refresh that nearly 50 year old brain...and as far as the Viagra is concerned you really just need to remember how many tablets you have left... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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