jetjr Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 TP youve lost me, thousands of almost identical engines produced by a supplier, have no bearng on their latest version they are selling direct? Is that what your saying? You really do just come here to argue and much of it doesnt make sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Why would I argue with that beautiful double negative, when you and your followers have cooked your own goose? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 Nurse! Nurse! He's out of bed again! 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Now, now, settle down, it was just a horrible, scary bad dream. Always remember, a double negative becomes a positive, and that's not really going to happen, is it? Do TRY to be rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Morgan Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 The camit motor is not a new design, it is a proven motor with the up grades Jabiru wouldn't make. and Camit know how to make it better, no motor is 100% fool proff. But it is one of the best motors you can buy .Dont knock Australian products when the others are no better. the motor is my first choice, after over 10 years of using them with out any major problems . I just dont see why so many people bag i good product. I get so many people telling me how bad they are, and they dont even own one. just know it all, and know nothing about the motors real value. How about some real support for our products in Aussie, I dont here anyone putting crap on some not so good products coming into the country, and paying double the money for them. Get real. 4 9 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There is a Camit 3300 engine that has been installed in a Jab 200 at our airfield and has serial No 27 on it so I am assuming there are 26 others out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 There is a Camit 3300 engine that has been installed in a Jab 200 at our airfield and has serial No 27 on it so I am assuming there are 26 others out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Dont knock Australian products when the others are no better. the motor is my first choice, after over 10 years of using them with out any major problems . . Garry, you're a smart guy highly experienced in the field of fitting engines to light aircraft. You have announced yourself that you disagree and have made changes to the Jabiru fitment schedule (and thanks for sharing those details), but many who purchase the product simply don't have the experience you do. They can not know what they don't know. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Research on installation packages for CAMit engines is currently underway; this will deliver a set of cooling performance parameters that can be audited on individual installations. Lycoming requires such a process, as does Rotax, if an owner /manufacturer wishes to be covered by a 'full warranty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Morgan Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 I think most of the problems are that the motors are running to hot , If Jabiru can address the over heating problems things will inprove a lot. and this is in the instlation . and not a problem with the motor . 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think most of the problems are that the motors are running to hot , If Jabiru can address the over heating problems things will inprove a lot. and this is in the instlation . and not a problem with the motor . Well that or may not be true. Part of the problems with overheating is variation in fuel distribution to cylinders resulting in some cylinders running lean and hot and some running rich and cool. That's a problem of using carburettors in general, and of the induction /plenum chamber design. Often it can be helped by use of baffles and grids in the carburettor induction ducting but often not completely cured. Good installation may help if it provides enough cooling to mask these overheated cylinder/s. But I agree poor installation can be the cause but even proper installation may not overcome poor distribution problems. Just to establish my position on jab. Im not a jab knocker at all. I love the airframe and the engine on my aircraft is fine. I have a 3300 in a J430 now at about 500 hours TTIS. I had a number of engine temp issues early on which have been sorted by extensive consultation with jabiru and experimentation with a number of local jab operators. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Whats the penalty of running EGT too cool? ie below 600 deg C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 What about CCT, the most critical of all which will melt pistons and cause seizures???????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Problem is the engines dont run uniformly hot, can have rear one or two OK, and another VERY hot, without full instruments you wont even know its happening. . I'll refer this post to here .. IF ... If I was CAMit, I would be considering making 2 cylinder heads, this would certainly help with distributing temps on each bank. For the 3300 you would use the 2 cylinder heads on the 4 rear cylinders (or make a triple head). I believe this would help the throughbolt problem as well by spreading the leveraged loads. I was thinking last night of a 5 minute fix to help current Jab owners. Simple folded over lengths of aluminium pushed over the adjoining fins may be of help to balance temps by transfering heat between the heads, something like this ..... ... with the first one added ... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Interesting concept. It should have some effect at least. Presumably you would put 21 of these between cylinder heads to connect all fins, so 42 per side, total 84. Would a push on fit be good enough so they wouldn't come off through vibration? The number per side is good (See Athiest thread) as it is the answer to life the universe and everything. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Would a push on fit be good enough so they wouldn't come off through vibration? . Maybe a small hole in the middle of them all and run a tie down wire through the lot, there should be enough room between the heads for that. Maybe even use perforated aluminium to let a bit of air flow through as well. I'm sure there's a few other ways to figure it as well. Presumably you would put 21 of these between cylinder heads to connect all fins, so 42 per side, total 84. . If they were a bit thick and it was felt it was preventing air getting down between the heads then you might want to do every second one only which would then be a grand total of 42 and all the Worlds problems would be resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bex I was about to ask if you had a patent on that modification. Then I had a think. (Takes a while.) The hottest area of the head is the outer part around the exhaust valve, so it might help the middle heads of a six, but on a four it would likely have no effect, other than restricting airflow. Edwin Land held heaps of patents, including for Polaroid photography. When asked how he came up with so many winners he said that he just had a lot of ideas- and tossed out the bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My thoughts.....maybe......a reverse vented panel on the top of engine cowl. ( create a largish low pressure there to drag out head temps from above ) ?? An area of small rear facing vents. Just a thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Single heads (per side) make water cooling easier too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bex, Jab had until about 5 years ago added what they called "Gull wings" between cylinders. A piece of aluminium sheet that connected to each head with adhesive. They recommended to remove same, probably after the newer heads. Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My thoughts.....maybe......a reverse vented panel on the top of engine cowl. ( create a largish low pressure there to drag out head temps from above ) ??An area of small rear facing vents. Just a thought. Best not vent anything from the engine dept. ahead of the cockpit. CO, smoke, leaking oil on screen... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The hottest area of the head is the outer part around the exhaust valve, . Yes, and that heat travels throughout the entire head, i.e. conduction, and will travel via the BMDCS (Bex Microscopic Diffusing Conduction System™, Patent Pending) to the connected cooler head. My point was to help balance the temps between the heads, not to change them per say. Bex,Jab had until about 5 years ago added what they called "Gull wings" between cylinders. A piece of aluminium sheet that connected to each head with adhesive. They recommended to remove same, probably after the newer heads. Phil. Very respectfully, don't care, I'm one of those people who listens to no one and makes my own discoveries. This is a "5 minute mod" with no permanent alterations to the engine, doesn't work throw it away, what's to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bex,Jab had until about 5 years ago added what they called "Gull wings" between cylinders. A piece of aluminium sheet that connected to each head with adhesive. They recommended to remove same, probably after the newer heads. Phil. The "gull wing" baffles are still included in the ram air duct installation manual for 6 cylinder engines but Jabiru no longer supply them with the engine. The idea from Jabiru is to force air through the head fins rather than between the cylinders. Jabiru specify these should be on the top. Gull Wing baffles have been around for years and are on many Lycoming & Continental engines but are always on the bottom. This allows air to flow down between the cylinders & then be forced sideways to get some air flow over the cylinder fins at the bottom. This seems to me to be a more sensible approach than the Jabiru one. I have not installed them but will monitor the situation once my aircraft is flying. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Gull wings are standard with CAMIT engines and they are larger than the Jabiru ones were. Are they on the top or bottom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bottom, but not as large (relatively) as a continental 0-220. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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