Oscar Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I'll do my best Oscar. Thanks Nev Nev - hope this gets to you in time before you leave: 1) If you're seeking a place to stay in Bundy, the Big4 Cane Caravan OPark is excellent (apart from the bloody resident Koel..). And: 2) go to : http://www.grunskesbytheriver.com.au/and get some Bundy local Banana prawns for your evening meal. Cook then how you like them best, magic on a stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I have not picked up any suggestion that Jabiru get favoured treatment by RAAus. who have many sponsors over the years from suppliers. The certified engines would be the domain of CASA.. Some are quick to judge other pilots here at times . It would be prudent to get all the facts before being so definite. Thanks Oscar. Ian Bent is the person I have contacted. ........ OK the vehicle is easy to spot. The INDIAN is RED, but there are 3 similar to mine . Backup is. White Transit VF 97 model, pulling an Orange pop up trailer.. There are about 60 vehicles (all old) Participating about half are cars and they are pretty much 1918 or earlier . Nev 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 If Don's letter managed to get the Board to devote some resources (or even just press-gang some experienced say L2's/L4's into helping) assemble the facts behind Jabiru engine failures, I'd certainly support it.What is almost universally (it seems) reported, is the nature of the failure ( through-bolts snapping, valve heads dropping off etc.) - and following that, a heap of comments appear that jump to an immediate conclusion that usually reflects a commonly-held opinion. What is almost never reported is the actual cause of the failure - and that may be a complex set of circumstances including a sequence of events that, when taken and considered in their entirety, would paint a far more comprehensive picture of why the failure happened. If we routinely had such complete information, it would be highly probable that a lot of chaff would be sorted from the wheat and everybody - including Jabiru - would have a far better picture of problem areas. However, this is really worth a thread on its own, rather than being hashed through here Well said Oscar, however in this day and age, the idea of "never let the facts get in the way of a good story" and the over sensationalist view point of the media and it's all just speculation and opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 So, after reading all the posts, it's clear that this Jab engine did not fail. (surprise, surprise) OK, So why the hell did it run out of fuel? I think that I know the reason of course. The dumb PIC (who is sooo lucky to be alive) didn't put enough (any ) in. ..... Isn't everybody , before they take off , supposed to check the fuel quantity on board is sufficient for the planned flight PLUS 45 Minutes reserve. So why didn't that happen? I am so sick of blokes commiting aviation without taking it seriously, WE, who are not dead or stupid get tarred with the same brush, I get so fed up with people saying to me " oooh , ultralights? don't they crash all the time". Well, yes they do. But I don't, and many, many other serious pilots don't either. ...If you can't take flying seriously then bugger off and stop getting me a bad name......................... Very well said, safe flying to us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 People who continually knock the brand need to be careful what they are trying to achieve, That's a presumption that they are trying to achieve anything at all. I dunno about everybody else, but I always dip the tanks before I fly. You're talking about checking fuel in your plane, just to be clear? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's a presumption that they are trying to achieve anything at all. You're talking about checking fuel in your plane, just to be clear? You are a funny bugger, got a good laugh from me ! Thanks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Merv - totally agree. I can't effectively read the gauges in a 160 even with my bi-focals when strapped in, BUT I can read the log book with the last full fill time and the hours run since then and calculate at a conservative fuel burn and work out by mental arithmetic roughly how much fuel SHOULD be in there. Unless there is a leak in the fuel delivery system, it's pretty bloody basic as to whether you have the requisite fuel for a planned trip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Oscar, I would still dip the tanks before starting the big fan. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 That's a presumption that they are trying to achieve anything at all. You're talking about checking fuel in your plane, just to be clear? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The long thin fuel tanks make any normal means of qty checking quite difficult in a Jab. If they are full you know how much you have. IF you have added a measured amount you know that you have at least that amount.. People do steal fuel from planes. There can also be leaks. You should do a running record of hours flown to fuel used so you confirm a rate of usage which can be "normal" IF this changes you will see it in your records and this should alert you to the fact that something has changed. You can flight plan on actual RATES established or the POH figure .. It should be obvious to any pilot with half a brain that you must get your fuel handling , management and planning RIGHT. . Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Has it been proven that the aircraft ran out of fuel? A blockage (such as from contaminated fuel) can stop the fan just as effectively as empty tanks. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I installed the electric gauges on my 250 wings and set them up on stools and calibrated them to go into the red at 20 lts a side . I've found this is the best you can do with jaby wings . Ov course it pays to keep a proper fuel log : Did I just say Ov. ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 On another note, is there a connection to the relationship ( financial or other ), between RAA and Jabiru and the reluctance to investigate / report on the high incidence of engine failures, this may border on criminal if there is sufficient evidence to support such a supposition. I'm not making a statement of blame or negligence, however there is enough anecdotal evidence for at least questions to be asked. I might need a lawyer after this. Pat, what do you think RAA could reasonably do? How the H can they investigate the cause of engine failures? To do that properly requires resources that RAA simply does not have; RAA has Darren Barnfield, and who else? (Don't all speak at once!). Darren is more than flat out trying to catch up on decades of "old boy" stuff and ignorance and neglect. Yes, RAA could engage the services of suitable industry experts, if it wanted to spend members' money on that - but first, it needs to get its hands on the engine before anybody can tamper with it. It has no legal power to do that (ATSB does). It also needs to get a real history of the engine, and again it has no statutory power to impound that, assuming it existed. Apart from trying to make it run on air, which is pretty obvious, the causes of an engine failure usually involve a complex chain of events, and some of them are very subtle. When I worked for DCA in the '70s, I had a broken crankshaft from a Continental IO-520 for a footrest. The failure was attributed to a propeller strike about 500 hours earlier, that had de-tuned the pendulum counterweights with which that shaft was fitted. In those days, DCA had its own metallurgical laboratory. Nowadays CASA does not have any such resources. How the H could there be a suppression of knowledge, when the RAA does not have any real knowledge apart from what the accident investigation can discover - which is very lightweight when it comes to anything subtle in an engine. Discovering that a through-bolt (to use a topical example) failed does not tell you anything about WHY it failed; and that is what is needed. You ain't gonna get it from RAA; they do not have what it takes. 1 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 To use a very simplistic example: let's say that 'X' died from heart failure, while consuming a meal of potted quail and artichokes. The facts that 'X' had a BMI of 38, had run up three flights of stairs immediately prior to dinner, was a 50-cigarettes-a-day person, had a cholesterol level of 15 and had just had a major, major row with his spouse prior to sitting down to dinner, goes unrecorded. Ban potted quail. It's pretty damn obvious, isn't it? 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Happened to the shooting fraternity in 1996 - aviators be warned..... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Happened to the shooting fraternity in 1996 - aviators be warned..... 1996 would be equivalent to recreational planes being banned and crushed because the minister is frightened of flying and thinks the rest of us must be too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rmb Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Article in this mornings Courier mail quotes RAA"chief" Michael Line as saying "we've written to (CASA) about this particular type of aircraft, so we've advised them that (crashes) have happened once too often" He also said that they ( RAA) had safety concerns about Jabirus before yesterday's ìncident. As is the case with a lot of what is reported in the press, people jump to conclusions way too early and get it way too wrong way too often. I am disappointed that our new RAAus CEO has dropped Jabiru in the deep end and held their head under water by bad mouthing them in the media after only a few weeks in the job. He has not done Jabiru or any Jabiru owner any good by trashing them in public rather than dealing with any possible problem with engine reliability in private. Personally I would like to see him sort out the administrative mess that is the aircraft registration system before running around saying things in the papers especially if as in this case it was factually incorrect to blame the aircraft. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rmb Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 On the subject of fuel starvation - before everyone totally buries the pilot for flying with empty tanks - at that time of day with the early morning cool temperature on a 3 mile final decent I would think that carby icing could be a possibility. It still should be a manageable situation. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 How refreshing that a Jab crashed that wasn't an engine failure, things are looking up 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Didn't the pilot report to ATC that his engine was running rough ? Usually fuel starvation in a jabiru sump tank system is sudden and doesn't run rough , it just stops , After hearing the weather report from Oscar , my first thought was carby ice ! It's that time of year . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 we still have our guns bandithad to hand back the AK and M1 but we still have the 9mm's We liken this to handing in a jabiru but being allowed to keep a thruster It was and still is so much worse than that. Perhaps more akin to handing in the 170s and keeping the 160s. But we digress, it is a good example of what happens when those that legislate are ignorant and make wild changes to suit their vendettas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVOCET Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 It was and still is so much worse than that. Perhaps more akin to handing in the 170s and keeping the 160s. But we digress, it is a good example of what happens when those that legislate are ignorant and make wild changes to suit their vendettas. "Welcome to planet Earth , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Jabiru engines now there's something that's worth talking about, what a good idea lets start up a dedicated post and everyone can have their say! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 ........ OK the vehicle is easy to spot. The INDIAN is RED, but there are [ATTACH=full]31469[/ATTACH] 3 similar to mine . Backup is. White Transit VF 97 model, pulling an Orange pop up trailer.. There are about 60 vehicles (all old) Participating about half are cars and they are pretty much 1918 or earlier . Nev Will be looking out for you. Is it like this one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Icing is not simply a temp related thing. Saying its likely because it was cold is not telling the full story. There's much more to it then that. I'd be very surprised it it was ice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now