Jabiru Phil Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Reliable enough if you operate them within specification, undertake preflight inspection and other maintenance as per POH. Even the poor figures provided by CASA puts partial or full engine failure no worse than 1 in 3300 flights.If it wasn't reliable enough I would not fly behind one. On those figures I still have 2700 lives left. Sounds good odds to me. These posts comparing engines is just a normal Holden vs Ford discussion, with more "Holden?" Owners commenting. Phil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 On those figures I still have 2700 lives left.Sounds good odds to me. These posts comparing engines is just a normal Holden vs Ford discussion, with more "Holden?" Owners commenting. Phil. Maybe we should start calling yours an infant & mine a teenager Alf 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Maybe we should start calling yours an infant & mine a teenagerAlf Good one Alf. Just a further thought, do teenagers get into more trouble than infants? Phil 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Good one Alf.Phil This might explain the good one Alf Your brand the infant, it requires constant care & babying, nurturing & pampering, doesn't like the heat, sh!ts itself on a more regular basis without much warning and needs changing out quite often. My brand the teenager , takes the bumps, bruises, & heat in its stride, just give it a feed and it will play all day and passes a lot of gas out of its bottom without any of its internals wanting to follow. What do you recon, sums it up pretty well. Alf 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rmb Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yep - the circus is in town. Proves you don't need big feet and a red nose to be a clown. I leave maintenance to my LAME who uses the Maintenance Manual and Service Bulletins - I operate the aircraft as per the Pilot Operating Handbook and take advice from my LAME on how to avoid issues. Must not be too bad since I have had no problems in 400 hours and 800 flights. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yep - the circus is in town. Proves you don't need big feet and a red nose to be a clown.I leave maintenance to my LAME who uses the Maintenance Manual and Service Bulletins - I operate the aircraft as per the Pilot Operating Handbook and take advice from my LAME on how to avoid issues. Must not be too bad since I have had no problems in 400 hours and 800 flights. I got over a 1000hrs behind mine so you have a bit of catching to do And yep the circus is in town and its located in a place called Bundaberg 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 400 hours and 800 flights. Aren't Jabiru's allowed to leave the circuit these days? That reliable! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Lol. Whn you have 5000 hrs plus, operating jabs.. Come and Bragg.. 400 hours.. That's cute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01rmb Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Merv - You are obviously sore from being rebuffed by Jabiru and have an axe to grind with the failures you have experienced. Since many others have been operating without problem, maybe you and your Lame's, L4's and L2's should have been trying to work out what you were doing different to have so many issues instead of just blaming Jabiru. Bit hard to brag when you have done so well. I will leave the little boys to their pissing contest now. Enjoy yourselves. 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 When is CASA going to let Jab owners know what is going on ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This might explain the good one AlfYour brand the infant, it requires constant care & babying, nurturing & pampering, doesn't like the heat, sh!ts itself on a more regular basis without much warning and needs changing out quite often. My brand the teenager , takes the bumps, bruises, & heat in its stride, just give it a feed and it will play all day and passes a lot of gas out of its bottom without any of its internals wanting to follow. What do you recon, sums it up pretty well. Alf Alf, you must be a Holden fan then! I revert to trivia only because I am bored with some of the comments as I must be a Ford owner according to some. Alf, I think you have forgotten about modern youth, which is vastly different from the yesterday. They are hard to start. Have no power. Expensive to keep. Forget their lessons. Drive, means computer hardware. Trade-ins are worth nix. Etc etc. Just love you infant analogy though. Keep that Holden going. Cheers Phil. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motzartmerv Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yea thanx for the advice. I'm glad your engine hasn't let you down in 400 hours, but your hardly in a position to be offerin advice on how to be a "reliable" operator after 400 hours mate. No offense but your a pup in this dog pit mate. We have roughly the Same hours operating rotax aswel, so you really think I should ask what my lames are doing wron when we hve had no major iasues with them? 400 hours...lol.. I'm still laughing mate. Come in here bragging about your awesome maintenance and operating. Mate some schools do 400 hours in 3 months. 1 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmech Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yep - the circus is in town. Proves you don't need big feet and a red nose to be a clown.I leave maintenance to my LAME who uses the Maintenance Manual and Service Bulletins - I operate the aircraft as per the Pilot Operating Handbook and take advice from my LAME on how to avoid issues. Must not be too bad since I have had no problems in 400 hours and 800 flights. 400 hrs! time to start praying 1 2 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Yea thanx for the advice.I'm glad your engine hasn't let you down in 400 hours, but your hardly in a position to be offerin advice on how to be a "reliable" operator after 400 hours mate. No offense but your a pup in this dog pit mate. We have roughly the Same hours operating rotax aswel, so you really think I should ask what my lames are doing wron when we hve had no major iasues with them? 400 hours...lol.. I'm still laughing mate. Come in here bragging about your awesome maintenance and operating. Mate some schools do 400 hours in 3 months. Mate (beverage) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_(beverage) Mate also known as yerba mate, chimarrão or cimarrón is a traditional South American caffeine-rich infused drink, particularly in Argentina (where it is defined by ... Yerba mate - Club-Mate - Black drink - Bombilla 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's meaning was changed forever for Australians on the beach at Gallipoli. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornis Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 http://www.jabiru.net.au/images/AVDALSR088-1_Piston_Offset.pdf Engineering Report: AVDALSR088-1 17th Sept 2013 4 Service History At the time of writing: - The Jabiru 2200 engine has been in production for over 20 years in various configurations. - Approximately 7,000 Jabiru engines of various models have been manufactured. - It is estimated that around 500 engines have exceeded 1,000 hours TIS. - Annual fleet hours are estimated at in excess of 20,000 hours. Of 7000 engines it is estimated 500 exceeded 1000 TIS. One in 14; 7%. (How many of the other 6500 are still going?) How many of the 500 "successful" engines got to 1000 hours without having the heads off, inspected, replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Alf, you must be a Holden fan then!I revert to trivia only because I am bored with some of the comments as I must be a Ford owner according to some. Alf, I think you have forgotten about modern youth, which is vastly different from the yesterday. They are hard to start. Have no power. Expensive to keep. Forget their lessons. Drive, means computer hardware. Trade-ins are worth nix. Etc etc. Just love you infant analogy though. Keep that Holden going. Cheers Phil. Actually Phil, Neither Holden or Ford fan mate, much prefer the Japanese brands for the quality & finish. Have a Xtrail TD & a BT 50 TD these days had a couple of the Aussie brands early on and learnt my lesson. And with the modern youth analogy I never found that with my 4 kids when they were teenagers other than yes they were expensive to keep, the rest is how you bring them up from the infant stage. Cheers Alf 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Power to weight ratio.Air cooling. Light weight. Suitable for specific aircraft types. Simple design. Easy to service and work on. Affordable.... Smooth running Quiet Sounds like a real aeroplane engine Fuel efficient 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 being affordable is a big deal, without that I would have done 600 less hours and RAA might be 1000 aircraft smaller and many less flyers. Merv, yes you should ask more of maintainers, that failure rate is absurdly high Admittedly they are restrained by following documentation to the letter. It has been shown extra effort and flexibility needed to keep them going. Id suggest much of your problms "caused" by sticking to documented methods and spec, therefore "caused" by whole LSA squirrel grip. If the onfo was available it might be onteresting failure rate by rego, LSA (L2 maintained) vs others. Not suggesting L2 not doing good job but might indicate sucess of some current documented methods and processes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Once again lets blame someone else. In this case the maintainers and the system. The same maintainers and system that seems to work well for other engines but not Jabiru. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Ok, lets all blame Jabiru................................... nice work, all happy....... whats that achieved? Change LSA regs and let them fit others upgrades, then you will see real improvements and safety outcomes EVEN if Jabiru arent supportive. As expected some 80 pages ago, the current CASA proposal has generated nothing more than one off increased inspections recommendations, debate over numbers and major damage to owners and companies around the problem. (Who most likely hold the keys to improvement) As they went off without solid information Id say Jabiru will continue on their path until next time it flares up. If you think the maintenance system isnt part of the problem , your kidding yourself. Who gives a flock about other engines in this debate, owners of them spent WAY more money, they had better have gotten more of something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The stupidity of not being able to incorporate improvements more easily has to be taken into account, in viewing the situation we are in. In 20 years a lot of Rotax motors would be calendar time expired would they not? I understand there is no way around that Rotax two strokes other than the 582 are not supported by the maker. = no new parts.... We live in a real world and resourceful people make things happen. The beaurocracy inhibits progress by and large, as it is conservative, and doesn't offer fixes per se. Nev 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Heres some stats for debate lets see how many ways this can be read, page 100 here we come! - thks Kaz from elsewhere http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2013/ar-2013-107.aspx Accident rate for both is similar. Almost accident rate is not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Ok, lets all blame Jabiru................................... nice work, all happy....... whats that achieved?Change LSA regs and let them fit others upgrades, then you will see real improvements and safety outcomes EVEN if Jabiru arent supportive. As expected some 80 pages ago, the current CASA proposal has generated nothing more than one off increased inspections recommendations, debate over numbers and major damage to owners and companies around the problem. (Who most likely hold the keys to improvement) As they went off without solid information Id say Jabiru will continue on their path until next time it flares up. If you think the maintenance system isnt part of the problem , your kidding yourself. Who gives a flock about other engines in this debate, owners of them spent WAY more money, they had better have gotten more of something. I keep hearing this comment. They spent way more money. A Jabiru 80 hp motor approx $14,000 A Rotax 80 hp motor approx $18,000 That is not way more money when it comes to the life of my loved ones. It about 30% for reliability and far less ongoing costs. To be quite honest I don't think the argument that they are cheaper cuts the mustard. As for blaming the maintenance people if you are going to do that, then you certainly need to look at whether those same people are having the same problems with different engines. If they are not then you need to look at the engine not the people. And looking at the engine includes looking at the maintenance schedule, maybe that is unrealistic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornis Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Smooth runningQuiet Sounds like a real aeroplane engine Fuel efficient Quiet? Give me noise every time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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