JEM Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 A light aircraft (cessna?) 2POB reported crashed in sea storm bay Tasmania 1830 hrs tonight. Said filming yachts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keenaviator Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-29/light-aircraft-crashes-into-the-water-off-tasmania/5992052 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted December 29, 2014 Author Share Posted December 29, 2014 Hope they are both found OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JG3 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Latest news from a witness says the aircraft was doing a slow banked turn, then plunged vertical straight in..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I was there at the Remarkable Cave on Sunday. Beautiful but wild coastline with dolorite columns rising above the sandstone. My friend who is a lot younger than me walked out to the Tasman lookout and went for a quick dip on the way back. She said the water was so cold it took her breath away. Flew Jstar out of Hobart for Melbourne yesterday around 2:30 when the wind was strong and gusting from the north. Mt Wellington looked dark and brooding under heavy cloud but golly, Tassie is a beautiful place! Bit of a shock coming back to the billiard table flat landscape of Shepparton. Kaz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandit Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Pic of plane just before crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planesmaker Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Really tall ship? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 One picture is worth a thousand words. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotorwork Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Update from ABC RIP http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-31/wreck-of-light-plane-found-at-bottom-of-sea-off-tasmania/5994762 A plane that crashed near Cape Raoul off the Tasman Peninsula has been found at the bottom of the sea, Tasmanian Police have confirmed. The bodies of the pilot and the passenger were found in the cockpit of the plane wreck, police confirmed. Inspector Lee Renshaw said an operation to recover the wreck and the bodies would begin immediately. "Weather conditions, while sloppy, are not windy and that is good for recovery. As long as the weather stays favourable, we hope to make good progress," he said. More to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 About a millisecond to recover from that height Damn waste of 2 lives and that of a once nice plane All for the sake of a few photos, is it worth the return? I'd say not but we can't turn back time 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Slow, winding on the bank during a turn, half mast height (or thereabouts). Not the wisest piece of aviation the pilot has ever done, I'm sure, but it was certainly the last. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf jessup Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 3 most important things I was taught in learning to fly were airspeed, airspeed & airspeed in no particular order 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Sadly, experience sometimes comes the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotorwork Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 ABC Update Winching rope breaks 15 metres from the surface. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-01/recovery-operation-suspended-for-tasman-peninsula-plane-crash/5995590 Efforts to retrieve a plane that crashed into the sea off Tasmania's south-east, killing both people on board, have been suspended after a rope winching it to the surface broke. Attempts to winch the plane the 90 metres to the surface began after the wreckage was located at about midday on Wednesday. Inspector Lee Renshaw from Tasmania Police said they had had the wreckage within 15 metres of the surface when the rope broke. "It's returned to the seabed and we've been down there with a remote vehicle and had a look at it," he said. "The company we engaged with the remote operating vehicle were required to return to Victoria last night. "We will be in negotiations and planning tomorrow [Friday] and we will then make plans to go back to Cape Raoul." Sonar images have confirmed the bodies of the pilot Sam Langford, 29, and 61-year-old photographer Tim Jones are still inside the cockpit of the Cessna 172 which crashed off Cape Raoul on Monday evening. The pair were covering the Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race when the accident happened. On Wednesday the plane was discovered in about 90 metres of water off the Tasman Peninsula, south of Port Arthur. Inspector Renshaw said it was unfortunate they had been unable to recover the bodies. "We were very disappointed. it just a matter of keep trying," he said. "The most important thing to remember out of all of this is that there are two grieving families in Hobart." Once the wreckage has been brought to the surface it will be examined by experts to help determine the cause of the crash. The crash investigation is being handled by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB). ATSB spokesman Joe Hattley said the bureau wanted to speak to anyone with any information about the crash. "The ATSB would be interested in any information that anyone has in relation to the aircraft accident and we'd like anyone with information or photos or anything at all to contact the ATSB on 1800 020 616," he said. A number of yachts diverted from the race to offer assistance after hearing a may day call that a plane had crashed. Helsal III skipper John Davis said when crew members raised the alarm they immediately suspended racing and went into search-and-rescue mode. Two tourists, who were watching the yacht race from nearby cliffs, reported seeing a plane flying "really low" in the area where the crash happened. Airlines of Tasmania said it was devastated to receive the news of the death of its pilot Mr Langford and his passenger. Managing director Shannon Wells said the airline staff were receiving all support possible as they came to grips with the loss of their colleague. "Our thoughts and condolences extend to family and friends of Sam and Tim," Mr Wells said. "Both men were highly regarded within their industries. We'll all be worse off without their presence. "Tasmania Police, the Search and Rescue volunteers and competitors in the Sydney to Hobart yacht race, who did as much as they could to assist, have all done a tremendous job in very difficult and tragic circumstances." Yacht recognised for rescue efforts The owners of Tasmanian yacht Mistraal have been recognised for their efforts after witnessing the plane crash. Skipper Jacinta Cooper and her husband Brett received the Rani trophy for meritorious performance at the Sydney to Hobart's annual trophy presentation ceremony. The Coopers and their crew were the first on the scene of the crash near Storm Bay which killed pilot Sam Langford and photographer Tim Jones. Mistraal was competing in the race when it saw the Cessna 172 banking just above mast height before crashing into the bay about 300 metres away. In a recording which emerged afterwards, Jacinta Cooper was heard making a mayday call to the race control centre in Hobart with their coordinates. Mistraal was joined by eight other Sydney to Hobart competitors and the police boat Van Diemen about 20 minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I wonder who was in command, as distinct from who was flying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 This tragic event reminds me of something I was taught. But this may not have any bearing on this terrible event. Pilots should never be used solo in search and rescue, spotting or photography. The reason is that the pilot can get fixated on the target and forget to fly the aeroplane. When doing sight seeing, photography with a pax/ photographer ect or just general sight seeing around a object. It is very important that the pilot flys the aircraft only and not get distracted with what is going on around them. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Photographic flights are really difficult to manage. The customer often doesn't inform the pilot of his requirements in a pre-flight briefing. So, the pilot is hit with orders to 'do this, do that' while in flight. Far better to sort these things out beforehand. Pilots need to be firm with photographers - saying 'no can do' is important if the pilot believes the requirement is either illegal, or is beyond the pilots' capabilities and qualifications. And, for very obvious reasons, the pilot should fly the aircraft and not become distracted by involvement with the actual mission activities. Pilots need to be very careful about taking on low level jobs if they are not at least 90 days current with flying PIC at 'real' LL. The risks are greater - the lower the pilots actual LL total experience too. None of the above may be relevant to the above accident, but it needs to be discussed because these accidents just keep on happening. RIP. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Too true Dazza. I've had a few heated words with a young pilot that wanted to fly and search at the same time, it almost brought us undone when we were down low. He took offense. A year later he killed nine pax and himself when he pushed into known icing conditions in an aircraft not equipped for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Flying low level over water is always riskier also... Real shame, accidents like this are preventable. Hope the folks of those lost are coping, what a sad way to finish a year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Looking towards Cape Raoul and Storm Bay from the Remarkable Cave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head in the clouds Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I wonder who was in command, as distinct from who was flying.... ...... the pilot can get fixated on the target and forget to fly the aeroplane....... It is very important that the pilot flys the aircraft only and not get distracted with what is going on around them. Photographic flights are really difficult to manage. The customer often doesn't inform the pilot of his requirements in a pre-flight briefing. So, the pilot is hit with orders to 'do this, do that' while in flight. Far better to sort these things out beforehand. Pilots need to be firm with photographers - saying 'no can do' is important ....... Too true Dazza. I've had a few heated words with a young pilot that wanted to fly and search at the same time, it almost brought us undone when we were down low. He took offense. A year later he killed nine pax and himself when he pushed into known icing conditions in an aircraft not equipped for it. I just wanted to register my wholehearted agreement with the above, and add a few comments which may be helpful to others undertaking aerial photography operations. During my flying career filming and photography was my absolute favourite kind of work but the commercial training course provided little or nothing to prepare us for it. It wasn't until I'd had a couple of very hairy moments that I sought the guidance of my former CFI and his prompt reaction was to advise to always keep in mind that unless you're filming air-to-air it's always a ground-related flying operation, usually low-level, and it's impossible to rehearse all the likely requirements for 'getting the shot' - all of which make it an extremely hazardous activity. In the simplest terms he said that seemingly the sole purpose of a cameraman was to kill the pilot ... and from then on I always reminded myself of that before and during every photo flight. More specifically, the cameraman has only one objective, getting the perfect shot. To do that the aircraft must be positioned according to the lighting and that's probably not what or where the pilot might have expected, so the pilot is usually 'told' to "get me over there" - "and quick because the costs are running up", "the sun's setting" and all that. Also - even if the cameraman happened to understand the technicalities of keeping the plane or helicopter flying, he/she is isolated from the realities because they're spending most of the time looking through the viewfinder. And - in my experience cameramen are completely fearless. Many a time I've had to stop them removing seat-belts to go and stand unrestrained on the skids, to the extent where I eventually bought the appropriate harnesses and equipment restraints, and had the ops manual section approved, to allow them to hang out the side or ride the skids if that's what they wanted. It certainly made my job easier because from there they had a wider field of view and so it reduced the amount of manoeuvring required. The big one though, as others posted above, is that the pilot must understand who is in charge of the flight and, whilst making every effort to conduct the photographic operation efficiency and effectively, be completely comfortable with refusing or delaying any 'request' as necessary to keep the plane flying. Avoiding distraction and object fixation can be very difficult too, my alarm bells ring anytime I hear someone say "I just want to go up and get a few 'quick' shots of my house, and give the wife a wave". That can be a good example of how things get out of hand really quickly. I've twice been a pax on a flight doing just that on the way home after a weekend away. Each time the pilot has ended up doing increasingly tighter turns over the house with the camera-wielder straining with their head twisted back over their shoulder encouraging the pilot to 'not that way, point it that way'. It's a hopeless situation, if you're turning over the top of the target the plane can never be brought to point where the cameraman wants it to be. Given the lack of prior planning, and the pilot's desire to please, a disaster is just seconds away. The correct way to get those 'my house' shots is to fly a grid to the side of the property making a turn/course change of no more than 90 degrees on each pass, then flying away some distance, turning around, re-positioning and making another pass. The cameraman will accuse you of wasting his time/dollars in the air but in fact the operation will be completed quicker and the photographic results will be far better. RIP for the two in Tassie, as Tomo said, "what a sad way to finish a year". 6 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Looking at the photograph, the yachts were to Stbd of the plane, so the photographer had them on his side, but to orbit them requires a right turn, where the pilot of a high wing plane has reduced visibility inside the turn. Plus he is a about 100' above the water. turn a whisker too sharply and lift is reduced so altitude reduces. Bingo. Years ago I did a bit of aerial photography. I was PIC and also photographer, but I had a safety pilot flying when i was using the camera. One day he said "Did you see that?" Another plane had swept across in front of us, quite close, and I never saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Just a technical question, would the sudden attempt of opening the door by the photographer at very slow speed (to get a better shot) create a stall condition with the airflow disturbance (obviously already flying at a slow speed)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultralights Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 not normally, as these aircraft fly well with no rear door, or custom photography door. what is common to hear from photographers in the back is.... "can you get a bit lower....... a bit lower, can you go just a bit lower? " it takes a well disciplined pilot to to tell the photographer to shut up, and no, im not going any lower than this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffd Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 as a person who likes his photography it would be natural to say "can u go a bit lower and a bit slower",however as a student pilot what have other pilots told me "speed is god " or "aviate ,navigate ,communicate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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