Phil Perry Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The plane crashed just over the Alps as it travelled from Austria to Spain The crash occurred when the 76-year-old Briton - who has not been named - lost control of the plane not far from Salzburg. The wreck was not discovered until Saturday morning by a search-and-rescue helicopter. Both the British pilot and his 79-year-old Austrian business partner were killed instantly in the crash. The aircraft started its journe at Breclav on the Czech-Austrian border and was en-route to Spain when it vanished from traffic control radar screens. The area where it came down is virtually uninhabited and "relatively inaccessible," according to local police. Authorities said that passports in the aircraft led to the identities of the men being esatblished. A criminal probe involving police and the Austrian air accident authorities is now underway. Their aircraft was identified as a Sting TL 2000, an ultralight aircraft beloved of hobby flyers. "The airplane must have crashed almost vertically at high speed and the chance of survival was unfortunately zero", said Mathias Grünwald, a commander of the local Flachau police. Both victims were resident in Austria. The purpose of their intended flight which took place on Thursday to Spain was not made clear. Three eyewitnesses have already come forward to describe how they saw the doomed aircraft in a tailspin shortly before it plunged into the ground. Police said at the time the aircraft ran into a strong turbulence caused by the 'Foehn' - the warm Alpine wind similar to the Mistral in southern France which creates hazardous flying conditions in an instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 It is always heart breaking to read or hear of aviator losing their life doing what they love. Those Fohn winds (fast airflows over mountains) can be really dicey and can be a hazard wherever there are mountainous regions over about 4,000 feet. Fohn winds tend to be warm and dry on the lee side of the mountain and the sudden temperature increase, when encountered, can become tricky. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Probably no airframe could have provided protection in that particular crash, but a Sting has abominable occupant protection, you'd be safer in a crate of broken glass dropped from a high building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What on earths a tailspin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What on earths a tailspin? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyflyer Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 What on earths a tailspin? Cambridge on line dictionary. "a situation in which a plane turns round and round as it falls quickly towards the ground" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 they probably mean a flat spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 27, 2015 Author Share Posted September 27, 2015 they probably mean a flat spin. "Tailspin" is a regularly quoted term used by non-aviation oriented media and has been for many years. . . .must sound exciting to them ? WItnesses to this accident were ( more likely than not ) describing some sort of spiral descent / autorotation. The term also migrated into regular lexicon when metaphorically describing total confusion or chaos in a given personal situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 The term also migrated into regular lexicon when metaphorically describing total confusion or chaos in a given personal situation. That'll confuse them in Cannock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 "Tailspin" is a regularly quoted term used by non-aviation oriented media and has been for many years. . . .must sound exciting to them ? Yes, and in addition, the journalists usually insert the word Cessna into their story, regardless as to which aeroplane is being written about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Are there other aircraft than Cessna? Nah, everything else is a winged antigravity device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Are there other aircraft than Cessna?... The same applies to bikes: too many uneducated people, when they hear you ride a motorcycle ask: "is it a Harley?" And I reply, "no, it's a motorcycle." 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 If it sounds like a Duc, rides like a Duc, then it's a quintessential motorcycle. Especially with Contis. Bevel heads and round cases forever..... though I'd kill for a good 350 Desmo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You must be a great rider Oscar. I thought Stoner proved how hard they were to ride. . Having lots of new owners doesn't help a company. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Nev - nope, though I used to ride fairly quickly and a mate of mine who club raced reckoned I should give it a go, I never fancied myself there. Enjoyed a Darmah immensely, and was frankly slightly overwhelmed by riding a square-case 900SS ( the silver+blue stripe one) because it obviously had more than I was confident to give it. Also, I could only start the bastard one time out of three, two times it'd kick me skywards. But as they said - it doesn't vibrate, it PULSES. On a long sweeper, cranked over, the 900 sat there on line and sneered at you for not trying harder. Watched Hailwood at Amaroo in 1977 on the 750SS and realised I would never be a great motorcycle rider.. the man was just mesmeric. Probably the most visceral sight I have ever witnessed, his riding reduced the crowd at the top of the Hill to silence. Have never after that leaned off the bike - knees on the tank, just push it down harder. I've ridden some useful tools, from the original CB400/4 through to the CBX1000, but Ducs have a unique feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 They do have a good feel , but most models are not that powerful so that might help mugs like me to feel safe on one. I went very close to buying a 750ss and later on a Mike Hailwood replica but that didn't happen but I've test ridden some later 4 valve head models but I'm not interested in keeping liquid cooled bikes for a long time. The 90 degree motors feel smooth but at high revs the Vee Twin effect is not as obvious as when you are riding it about town. You could probably get a 350 or 450 if you wanted one. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Nev - I'd also have killed for a MHR, but other things were in the way. Several years ago, I decided to get back to riding and bought one of my all-time lust bikes - an '86 VFR 750, the first, lightest, simplest and fastest model. Then carpal tunnel (both wrists) flattened me. But when I've finished the Jab restoration, I'm damn well going to go riding again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Hope you do. I tend to go for lighter bikes than I used to, but I like a bit of grunt. Thanks for the talk but we are off topic. Cheers.. My bad..Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff13 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Where are you based Oscar, there is always an empty seat on back of the Wing. You can sit back and sip Champers while I do the work 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 That'll confuse them in Cannock! Cannock ? ? ? ? You're joking mate,. . .most of my neighbours, on seeing a 737 fly over, point at it and grunt summat like " Hum,. . .beelzebub skybird come. . . ." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litespeed Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I only have five words to say to you motorcycle Philistines..................... Bavarian Motor Works (R100CS) and Moto Guzzi (Lemans). They are real bikes for grown men, both had over 200,000 kms when I sold them and both would leave a Dramah or any other similar period Ducati for dead. That is assuming the Duck lasted past the first corner. My mates had em and they were a great way to make money for the dealer/mechanic. At 40k they were tired and about to spit large bits on the road. Same with the 500-600 Pantahs. I rode lots of ducks but could always beat em on the BMW or the Guzzi. Both the Guzzi and BMW were pushrod but still revved harder and only needed valve guides and clutch replacement after 120,000 k. That was three rebuilds on the duck if the owner was real lucky. And Gowanloch made a fortune fixing the ducks- enough to retire to Italy. I even had a Pantah 600 with 9k on it after a rebuild go bang big time halfway through a bend. Total destruction of the engine/box. Bastard thing tried to kill me. Modern Ducks are far better but still a money sink at the workshop. Financial masochists run old ducatis Real Masochists ride Moto Guzzi Lemans Cruising the Snowy mountains Hwy at 170 with missus on back and loaded with gear was the forte of the r100cs, and leaving the pussies on Ducks and Hondas behind, then flogging when you get to Brown Mountain= Priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Cruising the Snowy mountains Hwy at 170 with missus on back and loaded with gear was the forte of the r100cs, and leaving the pussies on Ducks and Hondas behind, then flogging when you get to Brown Mountain= Priceless. Now we know where "Litespeed" comes from . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thread drift? Who cares! Brings back great memories of when I was young and indestructible. If only my Ducati was the same... Gowenlock was our guru. When your heart says Ducati, but your head says Guzzi. My head won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 True, the Le Mans did it for me visually and viscerally, but for REAL masochism, I think the Laverda 750 triple took the cake. One of the years I wen to the Alpine Rallye, a bloke rode one in, we were all in awe that he could still walk straight after the trip down into the valley. Would it start in the cold morning? Can fish ride bicycles?? Geoff, thanks for the offer of a ride on the Leadwing, but I only just had the crotch spread to ride the CBX1000 when I was young and supple, so I'd have to mount the Wing by step-ladder, I suspect. The Beemer R's were all good bikes, but a mate had both a R100RS and the CBX; he preferred the CBX for long trips (e.g. Canberra-Perth-return), but loaned it to me to ride as a street bike. I nearly launched myself on it into Victoria riding 'enthusiastically' out to Orroral Valley one day. Those s/s discs were mostly for show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ahh, the Le Mans Mk III. A work of art and one of the many bikes I lusted after. I kept my overloaded Ducati upright all the way into the Alpine Rally site until, just in front of everyone my front wheel found an overgrown bunny warren. Bugger. How fondly I remember the community spirit as, next morning, the first thing anyone did after crawling out of the tent was try to start the frost-covered bike. Lots of kicking and cranking and a great cheer from across the campground as an engine would fire up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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