campslive Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 hi every one not certain whats happening in your local area but our local airfield corowa nsw has now introduced landing fees upon us ! every aircraft hangered on our airfield has copped a bill and the local SHIRE is adamant they will be staying for good ,almost every aircraft resident has complained and some moved to other airfields but it now looks like more escalating cost to a sport only some can afford to do now days whats next in our sport ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 By contrast, Wentworth shire put in a swipe card bowser and the town has had my custom on several weekends for that reason alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 If an airport is seen a a drain on the resources of a local community then the likely next step is landing fees if not closure. Access to airports is likely to be the biggest thing preventing the expansion of recreational flying and not just in the major centers. If you have an airport locally but nowhere to fly to then the fun and utility of having an aircraft is much reduced. If you operate at an airport where there are currently no landing fees you need to be talking to the operator of your airport to explain the benefit to the community of having an airport. You need to be helping them plan the future of the airport and being involved. You want the Wollongong situation rather than the Warnervale one. I bet that in the Corrowa example above a year or so ago there was a discussion paper of some sort about introducing landing fees. How many comments against it did they receive? Waiting until one day when they introduce landing fees will be to late. It is much harder to change a decision than to prevent one being made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apm Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Landing fees are just the begining, sounds like your council has been sucked in like many before them. You may even end up with cameras at each taxiway managed by some company in Sydney, Strangly their fees are greater than the revinue. may even end up vith security controlled paid parking for you car. Next will be a feasability study into turning it into an international airport, Council will be reluctant to admit they have been scammed by the "consultants", so nothing actually changes but the fees stay. Airports are a gateway to a town, just like the roads in or Jetty, try putting toll gates on those and see how many visitors to town you get. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 what's the actual fee? And how can aircraft hangared there be charged if they don't fly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 what's the actual fee? And how can aircraft hangared there be charged if they don't fly? According to page 16 of this document it is $250/t MTOW per year and is an annual fee for regular users so $150 for a 600kg jabiru. http://www.corowa.nsw.gov.au/council/planning/fees/images/Final_Revenue_Policy_2014-15.pdf EDIT this document shows that it has doubled for next year: http://www.corowa.nsw.gov.au/business/development/images/2015_-_2016_Revenue_Policy5.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 According to page 16 of this document it is $250/t MTOW per year and is an annual fee for regular users so $150 for a 600kg jabiru.http://www.corowa.nsw.gov.au/council/planning/fees/images/Final_Revenue_Policy_2014-15.pdf EDIT this document shows that it has doubled for next year: http://www.corowa.nsw.gov.au/business/development/images/2015_-_2016_Revenue_Policy5.pdf Seriously bad finance manager there: Commercial 600kj Jab = $1.92 per landing Private 600kg Jab = $300/year ... that's 156 landings at commercial rates SO declare yourself commercial IMMEDIATELY and enjoy $1.92 landings as you use them ... I might even visit in my Single seater - 300kg = $0.96 - Im generous so they can have the $1 coin Oh and if you are not a regular user stay private because then there are no landing fees. Seriously bad planning on the part of the finance chap or lady involved here. A much better option would be to have an honesty tin with a request for $2/landing ... would have probably achieved more revenue and annoyed fewer people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 So next financial year it'll be $500/tonne MTOW per annum. And you're up in arms over that? I'd love to be based somewhere like that. IF I fly circuits at Warnervale (in my own RV-9 too, mind you, not a school aircraft), it costs over $600 an hour! $15 per landing with no daily rate. $110 just for the privilege of refuelling on council land, not counting the actual fuel purchased. $1,650 "parking fee" per year and an annual "licence fee" of over $600. It'd be cheaper to fly to Corowa and do an hour of circuits there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 So next financial year it'll be $500/tonne MTOW per annum. And you're up in arms over that? I'd love to be based somewhere like that.IF I fly circuits at Warnervale (in my own RV-9 too, mind you, not a school aircraft), it costs over $600 an hour! [/i]$15 per landing with no daily rate. $110 just for the privilege of refuelling on council land, not counting the actual fuel purchased. $1,650 "parking fee" per year and an annual "licence fee" of over $600. Yep, councils have worked out that $$ can be had/gouged from people who have the $$ to buy/build what is perceived as a rich persons hobby and it works when in fact you are mostly limited to operating from an airfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDQDI Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 So next financial year it'll be $500/tonne MTOW per annum. And you're up in arms over that? I'd love to be based somewhere like that.IF I fly circuits at Warnervale (in my own RV-9 too, mind you, not a school aircraft), it costs over $600 an hour! $15 per landing with no daily rate. $110 just for the privilege of refuelling on council land, not counting the actual fuel purchased. $1,650 "parking fee" per year and an annual "licence fee" of over $600. It'd be cheaper to fly to Corowa and do an hour of circuits there! Over 600$ an hour? More fool anyone who puts up with that! (I don't mean to call anyone in particular a Fool, just using the expression to put emphasis on the fact that paying that much for rec flying seems overly excessive to me.) I think most people are happy to chip in a little, especially when travelling and the place has some decent facilities. But excessive charges only put people off, it may be justifiable for a commercial operator to pay more if they can pass the cost on but for us recreational users it will just turn us away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Over 600$ an hour? More fool anyone who puts up with that! (I don't mean to call anyone in particular a Fool, just using the expression to put emphasis on the fact that paying that much for rec flying seems overly excessive to me.)I think most people are happy to chip in a little, especially when travelling and the place has some decent facilities. No worries I understood where you're coming from. A good proportion of that is due to the sheer performance of the RV, being at circuit altitude on downwind in less than 30 seconds...Hence flying at least 10 laps an hour. But having the balls to charge you a refuelling fee, or a licence fee & parking fee and a fee for each landing is a bit rich. Which is why the RV is based at Cessnock for now. I drive an hour past Warnervale simply because of these charges. No one minds chipping in their fair share, but the operative word there is "fair"... How the local aero club makes out has got me stuffed.Here's the charges I worked out, based on 10 laps an hour, once a month. For aircraft based there: Annual "Licence Fee": $605 Annual "Parking fee": $1650 Landing fee: $15 per landing - no daily rate like at Bankstown or other aerodromes. "Refuelling fee": $110 just to refuel on council land! Fuel: $100 Total: ((605+1650)/12)+(15*10)+110+100=$547 + perhaps $50 in the kitty for insurance, oil, tyres and an engine overhaul. For Itinerant aircraft: $27.50 per landing, 10 circuits an hour. $275 $110 "refuelling fee" just to refuel on council land! Fuel, $100. (27.50*10)+110+100=$485 + the $50 for sundries. But excessive charges only put people off, it may be justifiable for a commercial operator to pay more if they can pass the cost on but for us recreational users it will just turn us away. The cynic in me suggests that is exactly what Council is trying to do. There is more money to be made flogging the land off to developers than maintaining it as an airport, even though they recently resurfaced part of the runway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 The cynic in me suggests that is exactly what Council is trying to do. There is more money to be made flogging the land off to developers than maintaining it as an airport, even though they recently resurfaced part of the runway Nails it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Someone has to pay for the upkeep of the airfield. Council does it from rates so non flyers are supporting your hobby. I was paying my local council $500 per year for a few years and then negotiated a rate with the private owner that took it over. I would love to have had the local rate payers paying for my sport asw some have. I wish my rates were only 150 per year. You want the airfield looked after, you pay for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is a HUGE amount of stuff I'll never use that my taxes are uses for. What ever happened to "benefit of the local area/state/nation" stuff, or does that not suit aviation? As mentioned pay your fair share but I never remember getting gouged to use the local footy field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Lets see what rates here get spent on that I never use... Dog walking park, No dog. Cycle paths and youth skateboard park, Don't bike (not enough cylinders or noise) and don't skateboard. Rugby clubrooms and field maintenance, Don't play rugger except a ball around the lawn with mates. etc. etc. I'f I'm paying for a lycra clad loon to buzz around on a pushbike, she (no real man wears lycra, except weightlifters who can pound me to a smear if I dis them) on public funded land, said lycra loon can bloody well pony up a bit of rates dosh to support the local public airfield. 1 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 We just had a big win at KYNETON I reckon, the local bushfire had lots of choppers in and out all day for a week and the community suddenly realise what an asset our airfield is. Maintained by our club, the council gets a free ride. 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRviator Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is a HUGE amount of stuff I'll never use that my taxes are uses for. What ever happened to "benefit of the local area/state/nation" stuff, or does that not suit aviation? As mentioned pay your fair share but I never remember getting gouged to use the local footy field. You know it's funny. When the new charges went out for public comment I penned a letter and actually mentioned the 25 boat ramps spread across Wyong shire, suggesting Council would not dare charge weekend warriors a fee to launch or recover their tinny.Do you think they addressed that point? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Lets see what rates here get spent on that I never use...Dog walking park, No dog. Cycle paths and youth skateboard park, Don't bike (not enough cylinders or noise) and don't skateboard. Rugby clubrooms and field maintenance, Don't play rugger except a ball around the lawn with mates. etc. etc. I'f I'm paying for a lycra clad loon to buzz around on a pushbike, she (no real man wears lycra, except weightlifters who can pound me to a smear if I dis them) on public funded land, said lycra loon can bloody well pony up a bit of rates dosh to support the local public airfield. I suspect that you haven't tried to run a cycling event, swimming carnival or play rugby on council land recently. Almost all of these events the council will charge some type of usage fee for the use of the facilities. And or require that you have (and prove you have) public liability insurance. I would also add that being more diplomatic in your communication is more likely to get a good outcome. Councils don't just one day decide to introduce landing fees. They have a budget issue and look at their operations to try to raise revenue. If they don't really know what goes on at the airfield it is easy to add a charge to it because the backlash will be minor. Users of airport need to be much more involved in selling the benefits of an airport to the local community. This is where airport user groups when well run can have a very positive impact on the long term stability of an airport. Another important area is community awareness. Look at the EAA Young eagle program. It is a great program for introducing the general public to aviation and particularly experimental/the small end. What it also does is prevent the introduction of landing fees and the closure of airports. Who wants to be the councilor that votes to stop the kiddies fun? After draconian over regulation, Airport access is a key issue for the future of General Aviation in Australia. Sadly RAAus, SAAA and AOPA are all missing from the discussion/fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnewbery Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Slightly off topic but worth a read http://generalaviationnews.com/2015/10/12/get-mission-oriented/#more-97363 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 hi every onenot certain whats happening in your local area but our local airfield corowa nsw has now introduced landing fees upon us ! every aircraft hangered on our airfield has copped a bill and the local SHIRE is adamant they will be staying for good ,almost every aircraft resident has complained and some moved to other airfields but it now looks like more escalating cost to a sport only some can afford to do now days whats next in our sport ????? Are they charging the gliders as well? Is it a landing fee or a use fee? Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68volksy Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 From experience - get in there and offer to pay Council double! Keep a close eye on all maintenance the Council does and a close eye on the figures the Council staff are preparing for the "cost" of running the airfield. In our case these varied from $14,000 per annum to $140,000 per annum depending on whether the Council employee/s wanted to sell the airfield that week or not. Not meaning to strike fear into your heart but we've gone from $700 per annum under Council to $20 per hour now the airfield is being run for profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campslive Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 hi kaz gliders as well ,there looking at relocating corowa council asked all hanger owners there aircraft registration last year of all aircraft hangered on the airfield no one knew or was told of the introduction of landing fees council was way too excited announcing there $900 odd k from the government grant from flood damage to up grade the main runway , makes me angry considering albury airport does not charge aircraft under 500 kg (my trike n passenger full still under) or raa registered aircraft ! pity I never fly in there or want too ,, I realize you have to pay your way in life but some times it is nice to have been told first or forewarned of the new fees not receive a bill in the mail ! makes matter worse you hear from a local resident they are approving a new building estate next door to the airfield ohhh the belittling politics of shires and there hidden agendas I can remember landing at Porepunkah years ago and had a hell of a north/north west cross wind so I decided to land down hill north direction only to be meet by an un happy resident of 3 years in the (southern corner) that was very up tight and up set I flew over his house above circuit height yet landed down hill , in the mist of his abuse and blood curdling manor I produced the correct map for this area and pointed to the map asking where was it indicated that his particular space of land was marked on the map as a NO FLY ZONE ? between that and a small verbal altercation I reminded him who was here first the airfield or him ? funniest thing is this nightmare still haunts a beautiful airfield to this day :( I hope this does not happen corowa way ? ps my edge x trike cost $200.00 a year landing fees but with the mass amount of aircraft leaving the potential $4 k a year revenue is prob around $2k now ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet47 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 About 5 years ago I did some flying in Paul Crowfoots jabiru at warnervale. I can hardly imagine that there would have been any improvements done to the runway or facilities since then and the car park or the access road for that matter. It was always felt that developers were after the land and all Wyong Council could ever see was $$$$. So sadly the users are financially pushed out and the money grubs win!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetjr Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Even well meaning councils get some strange advice,no idea where from. Locally they were advised all new taxiways etc had to conform to RPT type weight limits and incorperate full 100yr flood drainage. Needed resurfacing every ~ 10 yrs, $30K for remarking and must maintain 40-60 m width to remain ALA Another ag strip needed sealing at council cost. Tie in some local issues like cost shifting for slashing and maintenance an the councillers see an annual bill of $150K, Decide to close a runway down and charge landing fees Once it was pointed out the level of poor advice, the numbers changed and so did attitudes. We got resurface and remark main strip, narrow up cross strip. Too late for new taxiway as it was already done and money spent on engineering reports on drainage. Best way to make airfield viable is use it and bring some dollars into area via it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 hi kazgliders as well ,there looking at relocating corowa council asked all hanger owners there aircraft registration last year of all aircraft hangered on the airfield no one knew or was told of the introduction of landing fees ...... So the gliders go and no one bothers landing there any more and the town's businesses lose trade and then the need for the airfield diminishes until a councillor's love one needs airlifting to hospital or the emergency agencies need it to fight fires or drop supplies during floods. We used to have an airfield close by but.... Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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