kasper Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 Well I did tell RAAus absolutely that the flaws in the constitution as passed would be tested by me directly and at every point until the corrections to make it workable are passed. So lets start with the current calls for nominations. The single biggest difficulty under the constitution was the failure to ensure that association could work electronically for all members and I directly asked repeatedly how are you going to deal with a requirement to have written and electronic mixed. Factually RAAAus have NOT notified me under the Constitution that any calls for nomination are open because they have completely failed to have any form of written notification for members who have not given permission to use electronic comms - so lets just see how this 'election' pans out. Election process RAAus part 1. call for nominations Constitution - 34.4 all up to the directors on setting the process but it is required to comply with the AEC or equivalent "Any voting method employed for the purpose of electing Directors shall be consistent with those methods accepted by the Australian Electoral Commission or an equivalent body." AEC model rules - you HAVE to communicate to all people the process as a key element. Process - Constitution 34.5 "The Directors shall ensure that the process of calling for nominations and the election of Directors shall be made available to members" Q1. Where is the process for calling for nominations actually recorded and made available as a set of rules as to how nominations will be called and how any voting required will be undertaken? Q2. as the nomination is under the constitution the communication of it to all people eligible to nominate or be nominated is a communication under the constitution - when nomination was called and how did the directors ensure it complied with the methods of communication under the constitution? Q3. How long under the rules for the election must nominations be open for? Critical if communication to all members cannot be completed by a single communication. Q4. If the directors do not communicate to all eligible members the call for nominations is the entire process fatally flawed and any nomination and election/appointment that follows null and void? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Do we have any idea who, if anyone, has put up their hand(s) yet? Nominations close on 25th July. If my calculations are correct there are 5 board positions to be filled. Also, I have not heard that RAAus has officially changed to a LTD company yet? It had not happened 3 days ago. I have not checked since but have not seen any announcement - I would expect there will be a big hoo haa when it happens. Can they legally call for nominations to elect a board for a company that does not yet exist? Has anyone proposed any amendments to the, as yet unofficial, constitution? DWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWF Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 ....Q4. If the directors do not communicate to all eligible members the call for nominations is the entire process fatally flawed and any nomination and election/appointment that follows null and void? They could probably cover this off by sending out an email saying something like "Would any member not receiving this message please let us know." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Question - has anybody actually seen a document that sets out the process in any actual detail? eg how many days must nomination be open for before closing? Because nomination did NOT open under the new constitution on 1 July because there was NO legal communication to me until 11 July at the earliest ... and even then it was arguable not complete because what actually arrived in the post after approaching the RAAus was arguably not within any process that might align with or be acceptable under AEC model rules RAAus were told up front by me that I would push them to correctly comply with the new constitution and in my opinion they have completely failed to either establish an appropriate process or comply with the communication requirements of the constitution. This will all turn into a fun day of challenge in the near future because I am just jotting up the issues and will put them to the board and CEO at the 'close' of the nominations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I am pleased that you are on to it, kasper. I wonder where Don Ramsay is now? Plus all the yes people and those who think it is a good idea to fix on the run. To me sounds like a lot of lying took place to convince the yes votes. Good to see you highlight the short comings. Regards, KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billwoodmason Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I fear the opportunity for the new board to become a boys club with the reduction in numbers is looming as a distinct possibility. I wonder who and how many of the change Cartel renominate to drive their agenda. I am not against change, but there needs a demonstrated advantage for the membership. So far all that has happened is fees have gone up, the magazine is now only available for those who pay extra, compliance requirements have been introduced, hard mail advice of registration and membership fees being due has ceased and communication to the membership is at an all time low. (How does anyone know if it is members who are reading the online mag.) It seems unbelievable that we would be left with only the executive running the show to implement what ever they please without consultation of any kind. A deliberate ploy to have the fox in charge of the hen house?. Did I read somewhere they asked to "trust us". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 hard mail advice of registration and membership fees being due has ceased and communication to the membership is at an all time low. it now costs $1 to send a letter therefore if we have 9000 members this would cost at least $9000 to remind members to renew their membership, I am not sure how many aircraft registrations at the moment but perhaps around $3000 in postage to remind owners to re register. Not to mention other communications. Personally I don't think that communications have decreased, I seem to get plenty in my email. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I fear the opportunity for the new board to become a boys club with the reduction in numbers is looming as a distinct possibility. I wonder who and how many of the change Cartel renominate to drive their agenda. I am not against change, but there needs a demonstrated advantage for the membership. So far all that has happened is fees have gone up, the magazine is now only available for those who pay extra, compliance requirements have been introduced, hard mail advice of registration and membership fees being due has ceased and communication to the membership is at an all time low. (How does anyone know if it is members who are reading the online mag.)It seems unbelievable that we would be left with only the executive running the show to implement what ever they please without consultation of any kind. A deliberate ploy to have the fox in charge of the hen house?. Did I read somewhere they asked to "trust us". Not far wrong Bill.. I get very jittery when I get "Trust me/us". Indicates the author is getting tongue tied and begging for trust. KP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 What I could do is copy and paste Andys comments and put them up here for all to see. The post was deleted, however it was sent to me before it was deleted. KP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andys@coffs Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 do what you feel you have to Keith...I posted and in the end I was sick of the fight so I simply deleted what I said within about 20seconds of posting... If you feel you need to post them back then feel free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I thought you may be interested in one of Andy's replies, it is one he sent in and deleted ever so quickly however it got to me. So have a look. kasper, is doing a good job high lighting the new constitution which was supposed to be so adequate even with it acknowledged short comings. Thank you kasper. Regards, KP Of course there is also that whole I can continue to fly exactly as I should be able to thing that has and continues to be delivered...but hey that's really only of secondary importance compared to some of those other things..... With Respect Keith keep listening and one day...probably a day not ending in y, you'll hear me begging you for something.....and shut up probably doesn't count! I don't beg trees for anything and I don't beg bricks for anything so what on earth would make you think you're in line???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 What is the problem with a letter costing $1 to send for renewal. The cost of renewal must cover the mailing costs. What I am wondering about is what is the current board doing? I am another who does not trust anyone who says trust me, nor anyone who deliberately goes ahead with flawed documentation about the constitution. I also wonder who will nominate for board membership. I certainly don't have the background they are looking for, but I wonder who does and which of them would put up their hand. Is anyone here thinking of nominating? If so your views will be apparent to us on this site. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Membership just went up $5 so there's 5 letters they can send me....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ave8rr Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Membership just went up $5 so there's 5 letters they can send me....... Ah...but that $5 probably went to the CEO's Performance bonus...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 What is the problem with a letter costing $1 to send for renewal. The cost of renewal must cover the mailing costs. To send out 9000 letters with individual information at different times is going to cost more than a dollar per correspondence. Printing, paper and the labour of envelope stuffing etc. Just looking through the financial statements in 2014 Postage and PO box costs - $59927 and for 2015 - $33566. It looks to me to be a saving of $26361 I can't understand why some people are so unhappy. I belong to several associations and clubs and they all now communicate by email. My bank and super fund no longer send paper statements. Of course I can only speak for myself but I am more than happy to receive information from RA Aus via email, in fact I much prefer it. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Octave.. Have a think for a while we are paying dearly for all those extras, it is our data, time and electricity there is a cost there and it is going up. Do any of those organisations give us a discount. Nup. This is a case of user pays. Not all people use computers so they need paper copies. Regards, KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Octave.. Have a think for a while we are paying dearly for all those extras, it is our data, time and electricity there is a cost there and it is going up. Do any of those organisations give us a discount. Nup.This is a case of user pays. Not all people use computers so they need paper copies. Regards, KP No they don't give us a discount, but then neither do I with my clients. Most of us have a computer running for many hours a day or we are checking our our email on our phones. Look I do understand that there are those who do not use a computer, just as as 40 odd years ago there were those who did not have a phone, and we do need to run a dual system for a time and I don't mind subsidising the cost of that but that does not mean that our progress should be frozen. I would suspect that most of us do not get our weather information by phone but use NAIPS on our computers. Are people really unhappy and angry because they get emails rather than letters, Personally I am thrilled to be able to fly, at some point in every flight I think to myself, holy **** this is ******* awesome and it does not seem to make any difference whether I get letters or emails or whether RA Aus is an association or a corporation, how many board members there are, whether I get emails or letters, whether I get a paper magazine or a digital magazine or indeed no magazine at all. But that is just my opinion, for me rec flying increases my happiness, if it made me that angry I would quit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 What is the problem with a letter costing $1 to send for renewal. The cost of renewal must cover the mailing costs.What I am wondering about is what is the current board doing? I am another who does not trust anyone who says trust me, nor anyone who deliberately goes ahead with flawed documentation about the constitution. I also wonder who will nominate for board membership. I certainly don't have the background they are looking for, but I wonder who does and which of them would put up their hand. Is anyone here thinking of nominating? If so your views will be apparent to us on this site. I am really unhappy to see people thinking that if they do not tick all the boxes they should not consider standing - its a really poor structure of the constitution. Factually NO member can be excluded from standing regardless of what skills the current board list as desirable and this was one of my comnplaints about the constitution - it puts up false criteria for standing that are not in fact there. If it were a tick box exercise to meet before being 'eligible' to stand then I would tick many boxes: 1. strategic experience - running large teams in corporate reorangistions for the last 20 years - setting up the budget and performance framework for the London Assembly Secretariat when Boris became mayor - setting up the financial governance structure and processes for the British Council globally and being a board member of the British Microlight Association 2. Finance literacy - Fellow of the ACCA global accounting association and currently the finance manager of a registered charity educational provider 3. Legal skills - admitted as a solicitor in 1993 - worked as a corporate solicitor until 1998 4. Managing risk - see above on general skills - managed the Governance and Risk Management for Allianz UK IT 5. managing people and achieving change - 20 years as the 'fixit' man for various companies in the IT/Process integration space 6. industry knowledge - lets see - AUF/RAAus pilot from 1995, L2 holder from 1998 instructor and senior instructor from 1997, worked with a UK factory for 8 years prior to returning to Australia 2 years ago 7. understanding shareholder expectations - well MAYBE just being a 'shareholder' with a 20+ year association with the association can answer that one 8 information technology - 20 years designing and integrating IT solutions for business across 5 continents - focus is on the human use of the IT rather than the IT backend But what we need is not ME but a group of people passionate about the direction of what RAAus is to move in ... get 7 'random' passionate flyers and there is a fair bet that many of the boxes above will be ticked several times over ... but to list them as 'this is what we are looking for' puts off people who are passionate on flying and the passtime of ultralights/sports flying. We have a professional reasonably well paid executive to do the operational delivery and all board members can get some training on core responsibilities and duties. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Octave what I missed is a transfer of costing to the members from the RAAus, good two good example are the postage and the magazine. Communication expense have gone down for RAAus and up for us in other words a de facto membership rise. How well is the magazine read these days. No sitting on the office desk, no sitting in the work shop, no sitting on the coffee table the communication has gone for ever in those areas. Regards, KP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Yep kasper some one with unrealistic ideology is the engineer of those ideas . Regards KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 hey kasper your over bloody qualified according to this old truck driver:wasnt me: neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 hey kasper your over bloody qualified according to this old truck driver:wasnt me: neil been there, done that, got the scars to remind me not to go back ... is what I want to do not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Octave what I missed is a transfer of costing to the members from the RAAus, good two good example are the postage and the magazine. Communication expense have gone down for RAAus and up for us in other words a de facto membership rise. Yes I fully understand that the membership fee has increased. From my point of view there has been no decrease in what I get from it. I actually feel better informed than I used to, I can watch a stream of the AGM, unlike letters I find I actually read emails, there is heaps of information on the RA Aus site etc. As I am sure you know about two years ago RA Aus was in an awful state with the antiquated state of it's registration system. As you would also know and perhaps even have personal experience of, many aircraft were grounded. It seems to me that this problem was always going to be costly to fix. I could be wrong but as far as I can see it has been fixed. Now it is perfectly reasonable to question whether the problem was fixed in the most efficient way or whether RA Aus should reduce its reserves in order to lower fees or continue to print a magazine. Perhaps in the next election someone will put themselves forward who can guarantee the return of the hard copy of the magazine, resume paper communication, reduce fees and perhaps even restore the board to the original number but to convince me they would have to present a compelling and financially sound case. How well is the magazine read these days. No sitting on the office desk, no sitting in the work shop, no sitting on the coffee table the communication has gone for ever in those areas. Regards, KP. Do we know how well it was read in the past? I can only speak for myself but I read it about as much as I ever did. I do understand that others will have a different view. I think that unless we can produce a magazine that makes a profit or at least can break even we have to decide how much we are willing to pay. I do not believe the important "communication has gone" but rather it's method of delivery has changed. I am in it for the flying, I joined AUF in 1988 and since then from my perspective things have improved, anyway that is just my perspective, I understand that not everybody's experience is as positive has mine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherk Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Kasper , WE NEED YOU !! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Octave all those things you mention are up to speed. However for the magazine case I used to read it front to back and a lot of my visitors did like wise, none of that happens now. KP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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