Riley Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Having just successfully completed the L-1 course/exam with a score of 88%, I'm pee-ed off that I don't get to learn which questions I failed to answer correctly. It stands to reason that, without this disclosure, I'm left wondering which of the 6 out of 50 exam questions about flying/maintenance/regulations etc I either didn't know or didn't understand which could end up causing me major grief. If necessary, RAA can change the content of the second test for those who fail the first one but, it's just common sense to advise the initial participants where they went wrong in each of their incorrect answers whether the exam was passed or failed. It's not acceptable that I apparently lack knowing by 12% what I should know to keep myself and my aircraft safe in the air. Again, not a very clever processing by RAA and their contractor. I've sent a memo to RAA Education suggesting this anomoly be rectified. Let's see what their response is. 1 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Having just successfully completed the L-1 course/exam with a score of 88%, I'm pee-ed off that I don't get to learn which questions I failed to answer correctly. It stands to reason that, without this disclosure, I'm left wondering which of the 6 out of 50 exam questions about flying/maintenance/regulations etc I either didn't know or didn't understand which could end up causing me major grief. If necessary, RAA can change the content of the second test for those who fail the first one but, it's just common sense to advise the initial participants where they went wrong in each of their incorrect answers whether the exam was passed or failed. It's not acceptable that I apparently lack knowing by 12% what I should know to keep myself and my aircraft safe in the air. Again, not a very clever processing by RAA and their contractor. I've sent a memo to RAA Education suggesting this anomoly be rectified. Let's see what their response is. Follow up: Today I received a computor-generated email advising that I had successfully achieved RAA L-1 Maintenance Authority status and that said endorsement would be notated on the next issue of my pilot certificate. This was followed by a second email fm [email protected] specifying the six questions for which I had provided incorrect answers. Only the questions - not the correct answer nor the selection of possible answers so that I could review/correct my indicated shortcomings. I know positively that, for two of the six questions, there was no alternative correct response other than what I provided and these I intend to hold RAA/Canvas' feet to the fire for a resolution. It shouldn't have to be a bunfight but........ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Follow up: Today I received a computor-generated email advising that I had successfully achieved RAA L-1 Maintenance Authority status and that said endorsement would be notated on the next issue of my pilot certificate. This was followed by a second email fm [email protected] specifying the six questions for which I had provided incorrect answers. Only the questions - not the correct answer nor the selection of possible answers so that I could review/correct my indicated shortcomings. I know positively that, for two of the six questions, there was no alternative correct response other than what I provided and these I intend to hold RAA/Canvas' feet to the fire for a resolution. It shouldn't have to be a bunfight but........ Hi Riley This is good that your communication to RAA will ,when sorted, have you knowing the information and answers for any that you were incorrect with. And RAA's online education package will be better and correct which will be better for all members. I'd expect that RAA get heaps of emails so when I have questions I ususally give them time and followup from time to time. I presently have an outstanding query but I respect they are busy and doing what they can as quick as they can. I hope your query is sorted soon and that the online meterial is edited with the necessary corrections as soon as possible after. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrZoos Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Its a work in progress. Baby steps, they are moving in the right direction, but yet to sort all this out.. It is important that people keep providing feedback. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 More important for everyone to be better educated than not know about something that could cause a fatal accident! I did BAK at the Cairns Aero Club, many years ago and passed the exam but the pass mark showed me how much I still had to learn so I kept studying! Frank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_S Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Hi Riley, I had the same issue when I took the course a while back. You are supposed to get the info, so I gave them a call and was told they were working on fixing it. Shortly afterwards they (manually) sent me the ones I got wrong. So I got there in the end :) Cheers, Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Well, after some three weeks ..........progress (???). Consequence of numerous communications with relevant RAA personnel and a fair amount of nagging, today I think I received an acceptable response to all my grizzling. Asst Tech Mgr contacted me and we discussed my areas of dis-satisfaction with the L-1 course, it's presentation and the content and manner of testing/evaluation. Whilst there was some parry and thrust regarding the questions/answers I disputed, I came away with the assurance that those items would be closely scrutinized and re-worded in a more specific manner once the ambiguity was identified. I accept that Tech have a big job in cleaning up the grey areas in the 200 questions that comprise the four different exams but I'm confident that they are receptive to input from members where either an absolute bodgy answer is deemed acceptable or there is a case where any of the three answers could have some validity (the fourth one is always obvious in it's stupidity). So, it will take some time before the L-1 course gets the wrinkles ironed out but hopefully, if enough members holler like a pig stuck under a gate when something they've experienced isn't correct, the angst will get settled. If you have a bitch with the current L-1 set-up, let them know then continually bug them for a response. Being the biggest 'non-believer' in all things, I do believe there is a light at the end of this tunnel (but I'm staying away from the W & B offering ). cheers riley 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron5335 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I'm with you Riley, I can do a "Can Do" a weight & balance by using a proven method, but I would look like a dummy in trying to prove it on paper with this new-age method. So if I need to do another, I will do it, and when it's right to go, get a new-age technical correct (With the qualification type of person) to come and sign the paperwork. Happy Days !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Oh Dear, I better get cracking, haven't done that exam yet. Not even sure what benefit it will have for me as I can still do an oil change etc. without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Weight and Balance qualification only lasts 2 two years with CASA. I suggest that applies here too. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCBD Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 C of G Bush Pilot Method - This is true story. I watched a bush pilot method of balance on a Cessna when he loaded it. If you go to the front of the fin and press down to lift the nose wheel off the ground with say (guess 15kilos) of pressure, he was happy that it was within C of G tolerance. To ALL reading this, I am not recommending this practice, just in case someone goes off at this post as irresponsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Weight and Balance qualification only lasts 2 two years with CASA. I suggest that applies here too. Any thoughts? More info needed. I got my PPL in the early 90s and apart from the BFR I have not needed to do any regular exams, checks etc. Maybe if I was commercial perhaps? As far as I'm aware, all I need to go back to PPL is a medical and maybe a flight review through CTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSCBD Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 More info needed. I got my PPL in the early 90s and apart from the BFR I have not needed to do any regular exams, checks etc. Maybe if I was commercial perhaps? As far as I'm aware, all I need to go back to PPL is a medical and maybe a flight review through CTR. Correct, although CTR is up to you or where you fly really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 It's for you to do a W&B on your or anyone else's plane. Not applying to the BAK aspect for the PPL or any other licence, though I believe you could be spot checked and able to prove you are capable of doing the right thing anytime. Pass mark for fuel management and W&B was 100% last time I had anything to do with it. It might depend on the organisation you work for. It's indicative of how important it is to get it right. By way of explanation this came up at a SAAA demonstration on a particular aeroplane which had to be weighed and a load sheet compiled that was in the limits for the specific aircraft in certain conditions The authority to do this only last 2 years, so I'm suggesting that ANY qualification along these lines may have such a sunset clause if it's required/used for a certifying or rebalance of a plane. I'm not saying I agree with this but it's now the rule. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I always did a weight and balance when flying my mates and myself to various destinations. Even used those horrible 'P' charts when it was as hot as hell. Nowadays, as I get older all the weight and balance problems are with me, not the aircraft!!! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I think people are getting confused about the W&B exam. The course and exam is for builders or if you modify the weight of an aircraft. It has already been (or should have been) done by the manufacturer/builder or a qualified person with limits listed in your flight manual. The other W&B is the simple calculation from the P charts/loading charts which every pilot should be familiar with. No need to do the course unless you are building or modifying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron5335 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Weight and Balance qualification only lasts 2 two years with CASA. I suggest that applies here too. Any thoughts? This is what I heard and it makes sense. The Weight & Balance formula we use, is solely based on Archimedes (287 bc) Law of the Lever. The current formula was translated from his works that were stored on his Commodore 64 using tapes, as he could not afford the disk drive accessory. Historians believe that before his death in (212/211 bc) he may have swapped over to a PC and did a Windows Version. So as both CASA and RAA are dynamic in their management styles , they placed a 2 year validity on the current format (In case the Windows version pops up) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I did the exam last Saturday as I think it has to be done by 31/1/17 to continue maintenance. I didn't bother doing any of the test questions or reading any material but had a soft copy of the new Tech manual open. I passed first try but not by a large margin. As Riley says there are quite a few ambiguous answers in the multi choice options. Some are too basic or simple & require clarification or qualification words. So far all I have is an email saying my Assignment has been graded, whatever that means. As for W&B I did it in accordance with the EAA Flight Test Guide AC 90-89A & created a spreadsheet with appropriate formulas to make the calculations & submitted that to RAA & there were no questions. Unless I change the configuration of my aircraft or have it repaired after a major prang it looks like I won't have to do the course. Anyway the procedure has not changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NT5224 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 C of G Bush Pilot Method - This is true story. I watched a bush pilot method of balance on a Cessna when he loaded it. If you go to the front of the fin and press down to lift the nose wheel off the ground with say (guess 15kilos) of pressure, he was happy that it was within C of G tolerance. To ALL reading this, I am not recommending this practice, just in case someone goes off at this post as irresponsible. That actually makes a lot of sense to me...Now assuming he was a REAL bush pilot and flying a taildragger, what would he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 That actually makes a lot of sense to me...Now assuming he was a REAL bush pilot and flying a taildragger, what would he do? Make up a belly cradle and attach it under the aircraft, resting on a roller. (I use a length of CM tube.) Climb aboard with normal load and have an assistant roll aircraft fore and aft until it's just balancing on the supporting roller. Mark the spot, then repeat with max aft and max forward loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 ALL aircraft will have to be weighed and a load sheet (useable pro forma ) compiled individually. In the past I've done my own. If your plane has been W&B'd by someone approved, It'll be in your POH just carry on as you need unless something is changed with some proof of actual W & B for each flight ( so you pass your RAMP Check) each time you fly.). The plane has to be in limits with take off fuel and empty of useable fuel and you in it (That's logical) If you drop chutists That should not put you out of limits either ( That's logical too). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I did the online L1 course last night. I got 90% all in all it was pretty easy and mostly common sense EXCEPT there are a couple of very ambiguous questions...I got a email after telling me what questions I got wrong so looks like they have fixed that area which is good. Mostly all of the ones I got wrong were ambiguous and I think 1 was me not reading the questions properly. But stupid question like what is the best way to do a electrical connection for a wire...the best way is to solder it..I put that but I know the other answer they took was to use a crimp and the correct crimp pliers....sorry I am a sparky as well as a radio tech and I say soldering is the best way...except of course when you are going to a spade terminal etc...BUT they did not say that in the question...stupid question really without qualifying it Anyway its done now with basically no study at all just a couple of the downloadable documents on the puter and they were easy to find anyway for the questions. Mark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I passed my L1 exam this afternoon as well. A couple of weeks ago, I was a bit curious about this course. One click led to another and before I knew it, I had accidentally signed up for it. Well after thinking about it I thought I'd have a go at the exam, and I passed! Well I'm all set when I get my own plane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Congratulations...did you find many question highly ambiguous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Congratulations...did you find many question highly ambiguous Thanks Mark. I guess they were, I found it was worded much the same way all the exams I took within the last 2 years, which was all my aviation exams to gain my certificate and xc. But I've come to expect them to be written that way now. I found the supporting documents were a bit lackingCheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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