Carnet or credit card ?

[Thunda]

G'day.

 

As I'm always lookin fer the best advice on anything, l ask whoever l think can give the best answers.

 

I, like most others here like to pay the least amount for anything, and when it comes to fuel it seems to be a big part of my expenditure.

 

So I've been using BP 98 Ultimate, in the plane, ute, pumps and any other petrol engines on the joint, they ALL like it.

 

So I've bin doin a lot of go ogling an lookin at all the forums on the subject l can find, and Google BP's Web site on 98 Ultimate and it states "NOT for avation" so l rang them and asked why?

 

The bloke l spoke to seemed to be a bit suspicious, and constantly answered my questions with questions, l asked if l could speak to anyone that could answer questions, l got the name and number of a considerate, friendly, patient informative bloke who was a pleasure to talk to.

 

He is going to get back to me on a number of things, one of them is why can't Air BP refueling facilities acccept credit card's?

 

I can't buy 98 Ultimate at any air strip, so l have to get Av gas, and it's a lot more expensive than Ultimate and a hassle to go and get 98 Ultimate.

 

And if l buy it for a plane why do l have to pay the government all that road tax on it when I don't taxi down any road's.

 

So...... how would you prefer to buy your Av gas? By credit card or carnet card.

 

I suggested he come over to this site and do some research, and find out how recreational flyers feel about fuel and how they go about getting it.

 

So he did, and was surprised, l also asked why l never see BP represented at any air show to answer questions.

 

He seemed to think it would be a good idea.

 

He also said the government intend to ban the use of Avgas in moter sport, and asked me if Air BP had credit card facilities what would stop the

 

Rev heads (not his words) sneakin out to the local air strip and usin their credit cards to fill a 200 liter drum with Avegas an not bother to earth it.

 

I said most air strips have security fences but it's possible, and the government in their wisdom never think beyond the next election anyway.

 

So what engine am looking using

 

BP 98 Ultimate in?

 

(With some octane booster)

 

Lycoming io-320 D1A

 

Lycoming say 100 because of the compression.

 

I usually fly from Tassy to NSW non stop at 2350 rpm lean of peak within Lycoming recommended CHT and EGT range, and get 28 liters per hour @ 8500 ft and 6500 ft coming home.

 

The plugs look good, so dose the pipes and wallet.

 

I'd like to get some feed back from people who are using BP 98 Ultimate in a Lycoming 320 or 360. Rotax, Jabba, Stihl, Marshall twin or compound, Briggs an Stratton in their planes.

 

 

[facthunter]

The octane numbers don't cross reference directly.. The avgas only have one product now as far as I know 100LL which would have a range usually for lean and rich mixture, (An older spec 130/145 as an example) and is higher than the same figure in a mogas product. so 98 is below 100LL by more than the two(2) difference. It's measured to a different performance measure of knock resistance.

 

No mogas can de declared suitable for a certified plane. It really can't be guaranteed to meet any fixed standard like aircraft fuel has to do. The distribution structure isn't secure enough apart from the product itself being quite variable in what is in it. Same with oils. Aero oils are strictly formulated so they DO meet the same standard regardless of who makes it. Not all oil companies make an aero engine oil .There's probably less profit in it. Nev

 

 

[440032]

Most Lycomings are actually factory approved to use an automotive fuel specification - see LYC SI 1070Z. The O-320-D is one of them.

 

However........ the required specification of the fuel is ASTM D4814, or EN228. The kicker here is, our fuels here in OZ aren't made to that spec, as far as I can see. Probably the same stuff in reality, but it has to be to that exact spec to use it. Those, and those only, are the ones Lycoming approves. Close enough aint close enough. Then, the aircraft manufacturer has a say in the matter also.

 

Even in USA, obtaining that exact spec fuel would be rather difficult in reality. 93AKI gas sold at the pump could be any sort of slop, you just don't know. US gas pumps have all the different blends coming out of the one same hose and nozzle too. Interesting topic.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I can run 95 but usually run 98 in my O360 in a Piper Archer. And I usually blend with Avgas just because I refuel with Avgas every second or third time. No problems have arisen.

 

 

[Thruster88]

I can run 95 but usually run 98 in my O360 in a Piper Archer. And I usually blend with Avgas just because I refuel with Avgas every second or third time. No problems have arisen.

Is that a Peterson STC with the dual fuel pumps ?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You might save a few bob by filling up with Mogas, but risk massive costs if you get a bad batch.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Yes the Petersen STC dual pumps. Never a hiccup. I fill the mogas through Mr Funnel, habit from previous RAA Flying.

 

Is that a Peterson STC with the dual fuel pumps ?

[spacesailor]

My 1/2 VW prefers LL10. BUT I.m not allowed to store it as well as all the other fuels.at home.

 

So it.s 98 mogas most of the time. as used for outboard motors & Rotax582. .then mix in the oil.

 

spacesailor

 

 

[Downunder]

Refering to the first post, you are asking BP's AVIATION fuel division about selling 98.

 

Their business is aviation fuel, avgas. The 98 (road ?) Division might as well be another competing company.

 

They are protecting their turf, their business and their profits.

 

I made enquiries to BP about installing a 98 bowser at my airport and pretty much got the " no way Jose" response like you.

 

 

[robinsm]

why not get a suit of carnet cards and carry a credit card as well. Covers all bases.

 

 

[Thunda]

Thank for the reply's, nobody has given a preference for either Carnet or Credit cards.

 

The reason l asked the question is as follows:

 

l had a Sky fuel card (Access to Air BP) as l needed one in a hurry this company will NOT issue a card unless you sign over your permission to retain your credit card info.

 

They do not issue a receipt unless you demand it.

 

Air BP require you to jump through too many hoops, gather too much personal information and takes payments for fuel directly from your account.

 

Credit card purchase of Avgas shows up on your bank statements, is simple to get a credit card if you don't already have one, ( yes you have to pay a fee and interest) but you can use it to purchase other goodies anyway and it's a lot better than a Carnet card just for those reasons.

 

Down under.

 

I'd like to hear from you in a P.M. please If you have the inclination.

 

Old Koreelah.

 

I get my 98 Ultimate from a very busy BP servo so l, rightly or wrongly assume that it's fairly fresh it's mostly all refined in Singapore any way and to a standard.

 

440032.

 

I, and probably along with a mob of others didn't understand any of that, Australia ain't America (yet)

 

Fact hunter.

 

As normal you find time to contribute to most posts, I'm always impressed with your knowledge (or research)

 

I'd also like to receive a PM from you so l can get an idea of your huge range of qualifications on all avation matters, just so l can justify my confidence in your comments, I'm guessing you're a LAME.

 

To everyone else who took the time to comment, thank you l sincerely appreciate your time and value you opinion, the bloke l spoke to from BP was not with Air BP he said he was going to contact a colleague from Air BP and get me some answers, he did say Air BP were very keen to boost their sales.

 

He also said he would join Recreational flying and monitor the comments on this forum, so..... If you want to tell Air BP what's on your mind or how they can improve sales pull ya fingers out an get em busy.

 

P.S.

 

I do take ALL posts and comments on this site seriously, but my knowledge on technical aviation matters is very limited even after 43 years of flying.

 

This is why l joined this site, to improve that knowledge but we all need the learn how to define the BS from the facts.

 

I.e: dazzle em with brilliance or baffle Em with BS.

 

Maybe the owner of this site could make provision for a listing of qualifications of those guru's on the site so we can have confidence in what we are being told is factual and from qualified experience.

 

I'm NOT trying to cause trouble or be a smart arse, let would just like to sort the wheat from the charf, chafe, charffe. Stuff it, l left school at 13.

 

An bein a Tassy bloke, two heads don't always help

 

 

[facthunter]

Thanks thunda. I'm not going to list anything like my qualifications.. I don't like the idea of creating guru's People only want to knock them off their perch anyhow. I can see what you are getting at but assess everything you see or hear carefully. and if it makes sense do more research. Most of what I write is from my own experience or others I know well.

 

. I have had GREAT flying experiences, of which many are not available these days so I'm lucky. to have had those opportunities. I promote safety and good understanding of flying principles (probably boring). They go together. Never liked doing it by numbers. Doesn't work in an abnormal situation. Never be intimidated or afraid to ask . No one knows everything. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thunder I agree with Nev and resist the idea of forum contributors listing their qualifications and experience.

 

There is an awful lot of expertise and experience on this site, but you have to do your own research.

 

Having lots of impressive titles and bits of paper, and/or have years of experience doesn't protect all of us from bad habits or just being wrong.

 

 

[Marty_d]

An bein a Tassy bloke, two heads don't always help

...but at least they balance the chip on our other shoulder...

 

 

[Thunda]

No chips Marty!

 

Ya may have miss judged me.

 

Old koreeleh

 

If it were a 4x4 forum l could try some suggestions and if things didn't work out l may get stranded on the side of the road.

 

I always check with three excellent LAME's on things I've read here any way, when I'm asking questions l like to know from what expertise the answers are coming from.

 

As a Trainer / Assessor l need to show and validate my credentials and experience.

 

I'm not trolling I'm just asking for validation.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Nah mate, just having a joke. I'm a Taswegian myself.

 

 

[Thunda]

Good on ya Marty.

 

Too cold wet an windy to be outside so I've been playing in the hanger, got the Polish an rags out an Givin the RV4 a back rub.

 

Instead of having an argument with me other head I'm here talking an trying ta learn stuff.

 

Where are ya?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

With all the advantages of extra fingers and 2heads r better than1, you Taswegians should get the building jobs done in 50% of the time!

 

 

[Thunda]

No extra fingers, costs a bit when we buy hats though.

 

Here's a pic of our dogs, cousin Bob an Phil, grandad and the Ducks. [/size]

 

 

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Gawd, I'm sorry I went there!

 

 

[Marty_d]

Good on ya Marty.Too cold wet an windy to be outside so I've been playing in the hanger, got the Polish an rags out an Givin the RV4 a back rub.

Instead of having an argument with me other head I'm here talking an trying ta learn stuff.

 

Where are ya?

Allens Rivulet (20 min south of Hobart).

Yes I've been in the shed myself today - pulled a few rivets and did a bit of drilling & filing. Hammering down here - wish we could send a bit to poor old NSW. Where are you?

 

 

[Thunda]

North Central Coast at kelso Marty.

 

Waitin for my strip to dry out so l can head over to the North Island but that won't happen for a while, and the head winds are a bit on the wild side.

 

 

[Marty_d]

North Central Coast at kelso Marty.Waitin for my strip to dry out so l can head over to the North Island but that won't happen for a while, and the head winds are a bit on the wild side.

Nice area up there - we were up at Port Sorell for a weekend a couple months back.

 

Hope you get some calm weather soon for your trip over the pond!

 

 

[shafs64]

The only advice i have for people on fuel is to stay away from HI octane Puma fuel.