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IBob

Another NEW Savannah S on it's way in NZ

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I kept a 1/2" paint brush with the handle shortened in my jar with a bit of black in it to reach the places that the roller couldn't get too. Try to avoid making the black too thick or lumpy when you apply it, so the pieces fit better especially when the parts fit together around a curve. ICP have taken great care to make the holes in the right place but you will need a couple of Philips screw drivers ground to a gentle point to wriggle the parts to get the holes to all align. You will need them with 5/32" shaft and 1/8" shaft for the A5 and A4 rivet sizes. There is a ready made tool that Reg buys but I was unable to find them any where so cannibalised screwdrivers in my lathe with the angle grinder, a tool post grinder would have been more civilised.

 

 

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I kept a 1/2" paint brush with the handle shortened in my jar with a bit of black in it to reach the places that the roller couldn't get too. Try to avoid making the black too thick or lumpy when you apply it, so the pieces fit better especially when the parts fit together around a curve. ICP have taken great care to make the holes in the right place but you will need a couple of Philips screw drivers ground to a gentle point to wriggle the parts to get the holes to all align. You will need them with 5/32" shaft and 1/8" shaft for the A5 and A4 rivet sizes. There is a ready made tool that Reg buys but I was unable to find them any where so cannibalised screwdrivers in my lathe with the angle grinder, a tool post grinder would have been more civilised.

This is all great info.

 

So, you didn't use a roller? You used a brush kept in a jar, which you would top up with black as needed?

 

And I was going to get onto what is used to align the holes, but you've beaten me to it! More stuff for the shopping list. Thanks again, Steve.

 

It seems to me we could really do with getting all this sort of info consolidated in one place (if it's not already?) and particularly for the builder novice (like me) and for those of us working in isolation.

 

 

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You definitely need a roller Bob and it does a better job of applying the black paint more evenly and quickly as you'll be surprise how much masking off and painting that's required. The roller will do probably 95% of the painting with the bush only needed for spots where u can't get into with a roller as the build progresses.

 

I kept the roller and brush in a jar of water for months and just squeeze the water out of the roller rolling it inside the jar above water level of cause. The black stuff that I use is water base and assume it's still the case. I kept some black paint in a small seal container about 3x4 inches which i use like a normal paint roller tray.

 

 

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You definitely need a roller Bob and it does a better job of applying the black paint more evenly and quickly as you'll be surprise how much masking off and painting that's required. The roller will do probably 95% of the painting with the bush only needed for spots where u can't get into with a roller as the build progresses.

I kept the roller and brush in a jar of water for months and just squeeze the water out of the roller rolling it inside the jar above water level of cause. The black stuff that I use is water base and assume it's still the case. I kept some black paint in a small seal container about 3x4 inches which i use like a normal paint roller tray.

Thank you for the detail, Guy and Steve. I can certainly see where the roller will be the easier option, and probably give a much more even coating, too.

 

I don't think the stuff I have is water based: it's what came with the kit (with little detail that I can decipher on the can). Having just opened it, I now have some on my hands, and it's certainly not washing off!

 

But there has to be a way to keep the roller going, and if it'll keep in water, then good.

 

Got masking tape, thinners, Prepsol, starter can of Wattyl etch primer (white), rags, air lines & fittings, vernier callipers (to replace my embarassingly mangled set), bench vice (my big one can stay in the little 'dirty' shed).

 

I'm just about out of excuses.....

 

 

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Bob,I used a paint buddy roller but they became completely unavailable about three years ago. You could buy up 4 packs of replacement rollers for them about four years ago for about 2 dollars at big paint shops in the throw out bins, but I missed out on them or I could send you my paint buddy to use but the roller dries out and buggers up.

 

 

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Bob,I used a paint buddy roller but they became completely unavailable about three years ago. You could buy up 4 packs of replacement rollers for them about four years ago for about 2 dollars at big paint shops in the throw out bins, but I missed out on them or I could send you my paint buddy to use but the roller dries out and buggers up.

Thanks for that, Steve, it's a kind thought.

 

It sounds as though Guy did okay with a regular mini roller cut down to 20mm wide, which he kept in water between uses. I have a mini roller here, and I'm going to put it across the sawbench to get a 20mm slice and see how that goes.

 

It's great to get all this feedback, at this point, on what worked for other builders. And I like to understand what I'm doing and why, as much as I can.

 

The really BIG question, of course, is paint systems...so many options, so many strongly held opinions...I was talking with an aircraft painter earlier today and I just about came away with my head ringing.

 

 

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Painting a long way down the track so relax and don't put yourself under pressure, enjoy the the build and what it has to offer and you'll work things out as you go along and it takes shape.

 

Make sure you take plenty of photos please 001_smile.gif.2cb759f06c4678ed4757932a99c02fa0.gif

 

 

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Painting a long way down the track so relax and don't put yourself under pressure, enjoy the the build and what it has to offer and you'll work things out as you go along and it takes shape.

Make sure you take plenty of photos please 001_smile.gif.2cb759f06c4678ed4757932a99c02fa0.gif

I hear you, Guy. Man, that alodine of yours looks good, though...

 

 

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Hi Bob,

 

With a name like that you just have to be a good bloke.

 

Congrats on starting your build. I am sure you will love it.

 

Your table size will be adequate (it is 800mm longer than mine and it was OK). I did find a couple of old kitchen tables handy for tools, paint etc. which otherwise always seem to find their way under the part you are building. Then you can keep larger pieces like wing skins and lexan in the supplied box out of harms way, and still have access to it.

 

Your spreadsheet system of cataloguing parts sounds similar to mine and it works a treat. Takes a bit of storage space to keep the individual parts stored as a component group, but makes life much easier.

 

I found acetone a great cleaner on alum, then some prepsol for good measure. Keep acetone away from plastics and some paints though.

 

As has been said don't dwell on the painting too much at this stage, just enjoy the build.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

 

 

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Hi Bob,With a name like that you just have to be a good bloke.

 

Congrats on starting your build. I am sure you will love it.

 

Your table size will be adequate (it is 800mm longer than mine and it was OK). I did find a couple of old kitchen tables handy for tools, paint etc. which otherwise always seem to find their way under the part you are building. Then you can keep larger pieces like wing skins and lexan in the supplied box out of harms way, and still have access to it.

 

Your spreadsheet system of cataloguing parts sounds similar to mine and it works a treat. Takes a bit of storage space to keep the individual parts stored as a component group, but makes life much easier.

 

I found acetone a great cleaner on alum, then some prepsol for good measure. Keep acetone away from plastics and some paints though.

 

As has been said don't dwell on the painting too much at this stage, just enjoy the build.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

Hey, Bob, and thanks so much for your thoughts.

 

As for the name, I tried to be BobI but it wouldn't have that, so in a moment of thoughtlessness, I just put in IBob. Which I fear may give the impression I'm one of those folk who cues up all night to buy the latest digital toenail growth monitor, or whatever it is we now can't live without.

 

And which couldn't be further from the truth, as I've never owned any sort of Ithing. Not that I'm a technophobe, but I began maintaining mainframes in the late 60s, and was over it by about the '80s

 

But i digress (often!)

 

The paint thing: I was just wanting to understand a bit more about it, so I didn't get part way through the build to find I should have been doing the prep differently, somehow.

 

The spreadsheet was something I downloaded a while ago, i'm not sure where from now, but I've found it very useful for the initial sort. I have no idea how complete or accurate it is. It looks like they started it but gave up putting in detailed descriptors. I think it's from someone in Germany.

 

I'm pretty much set to go now, just spent the morning doing the first burn of the autumn now the fire ban is finished. She-who-must-be-obeyed started it at daybreak: she's been busting to get rid of the offcuts and general fallout from The Great Shed Build.

 

Thanks for your input on cleaners/solvents. Lunch now, then make the blackstuff roller, then into some deburring and cleaning. Finally.....)

 

 

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Made a start on the fin today, feeling my way with all these new (to me) tools.

 

Question: There are 2 anchor nuts to be A3 riveted to the bottom of the forward longeron. The illustration shows a countersink rivet, and the manual says flush head rivet. I just spent half the afternoon turning the kit over looking for A3 flush head rivets, no luck.

 

Mark's excellent photo-build has something on this at entry #42, but mainly about using A4 domed instead of A4 countersink at the join next to this. He seems to have used A3 domed for the anchor nuts, and mentions filing them back a bit.

 

Should I be doing that, or should I be finding some A3 countersunk rivets?

 

Thanks.

 

 

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There are the countersunk rivets in the kit. Only a few of them and you have to look hard to spot them. I put the right ones in once I found them. They are hard to spot but very thin on the edge...maybe only about 20 or so in a bag

 

 

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I used counter sunk rivets. To make them I drilled a 3/32" hole in a piece of steel, then counter sunk the hole. Then put the rivet in the holes and put a pair of pop rivet pliers over the rivet stem and struck it my hammer about 5 times then gave the resulting counter sunk rivet a rub on the grinder to knock the frill off around the edge.

 

 

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There are the countersunk rivets in the kit. Only a few of them and you have to look hard to spot them. I put the right ones in once I found them. They are hard to spot but very thin on the edge...maybe only about 20 or so in a bag

There were none in my kit shipped three years ago. Only A4 and A5 ones.

 

 

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I found them..after a week or so. I didnt like filing the dome head ones and was going to get some correct ones but stumbled across them. They are hard to spot those rivets...really paper thin edge on the round head.

 

 

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Thanks Mark & Steve.

 

I don't think there's any in this kit, unless they've put them in some very odd place: I ve gone through the fastenings box a couple of times v carefully, including checking to see if they're nested in another bag. And I've emptied all the other boxes in case they were dropped in there.

 

No matter, if i can't source some, I'll make them, as Steve suggests.

 

Any idea how many I'm likely to need for the build?

 

 

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Boxes???/ hahahha all I had were plastic bags inside plastic bags

I've got plastic bags stapled to plastic bags inside plastic bags in boxes. Oh, and the first fastener I reached for...the anchor nuts...had no part number.

 

But I aint afraid!!!

 

 

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I used counter sunk rivets. To make them I drilled a 3/32" hole in a piece of steel, then counter sunk the hole. Then put the rivet in the holes and put a pair of pop rivet pliers over the rivet stem and struck it my hammer about 5 times then gave the resulting counter sunk rivet a rub on the grinder to knock the frill off around the edge.

Not wanting to sound overly critical, but if those rivets are only intended to hold a nutplate in position, then you'll probably get away with it (unless they shear off eventually). However, if they're structural rivets then use the correct aircraft grade ones and also take note of the correct cutter or dimple die countersink angle to use. AC-43.13 1B is a good reference for how to put aeroplane bits together properly http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 You probably won't find instructions on how to make countersunk rivets in there.

 

Also, scroll down the page here and download Section 5. Different manufacturer, but Section 5 has a lot of practical `how-t0' information in it.

 

https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv12.htm

 

rgmwa

 

 

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Hi Bob

 

They were in my kit also.

 

Wouldn't be the first time there was an omission in a kit just the same.

 

I have a few left and if you cannot find a more readily available solution I can post you some.

 

The way Australia Post is these times there could be some delay though.

 

I do remember finishing these particular countersunk rivets with a file because they do need to be flush and they don't pull in exactly so.

 

Don't know where you purchased your kit but the dealer here in Aus that I used provided a back up service second to none. Perhaps your dealer is able to do likewise for enquiries such as this.

 

Regards,

 

Bob

 

 

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Not wanting to sound overly critical, but if those rivets are only intended to hold a nutplate in position, then you'll probably get away with it (unless they shear off eventually). However, if they're structural rivets then use the correct aircraft grade ones and also take note of the correct cutter or dimple die countersink angle to use. AC-43.13 1B is a good reference for how to put aeroplane bits together properly http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 You probably won't find instructions on how to make countersunk rivets in there.Also, scroll down the page here and download Section 5. Different manufacturer, but Section 5 has a lot of practical `how-t0' information in it.

 

https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv12.htm

 

rgmwa

The countersunk rivet heads must be used because the face of of the part they get riveted into has to sit flush against another part so they do have to be countersunk

 

 

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Hi Bob, thank you for that. My kit came from Reg Brost (although I think he may now have a NZ sub-agent).

 

If I can find out just what they are, I can probably get them here, rather than do the international post thing for something so minor. But if I get stuck, I shall certainly get back to you.

 

As I recall, there is a fair variety of rivet specs, they're not all born equal, so I'll ask Reg what they are.

 

Can you give me an estimate of how many I may need???

 

Thanks

 

 

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However, if they're structural rivets then use the correct aircraft grade ones and also take note of the correct cutter or dimple die countersink angle to use

Don't fret. ICP supply A3 rivets which are standard pop rivets, structural A4 and A5 rivets are multi pull (avex) type pop rivets.

 

 

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Not wanting to sound overly critical, but if those rivets are only intended to hold a nutplate in position, then you'll probably get away with it (unless they shear off eventually). However, if they're structural rivets then use the correct aircraft grade ones and also take note of the correct cutter or dimple die countersink angle to use. AC-43.13 1B is a good reference for how to put aeroplane bits together properly http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/99861 You probably won't find instructions on how to make countersunk rivets in there.Also, scroll down the page here and download Section 5. Different manufacturer, but Section 5 has a lot of practical `how-t0' information in it.

 

https://www.vansaircraft.com/public/service-rv12.htm

 

rgmwa

Thank you RGWMA...point taken and I'll be getting the right bits.

 

 

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