skippydiesel Posted August 18, 2022 Share Posted August 18, 2022 A classic example of how market economy philosophy can get it so wrong & even worse stand in the way of progress toward a cleaner environment and fewer heath problems. I have only limited experience is flying up/down part of the east coast & as far inland as Condobolin - the airfield that seems to lend itself to Ian's excellent suggestion (above) is Armidale - Speculation; there may be other airfield situated along side a major road/highway that could also have a lad/air refueling facility. Otherwise the cost of a fuel depot for such a low volume usage, would either prohibit installation or put the the cost of ULP up near Avgas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 On 12/05/2022 at 11:34 PM, kgwilson said: I think that it is the collective brainwashing we have all been subjected to that has so many people continue to use Avgas for no reason and less benefit than using automotive petrol, and why it has taken many who are now converts so long to make the switch. This has probably initially come from Avgas manufacturers and fuelled by engine manufacturers and in turn by aircraft manufacturers in the POH with the fear factor of engine damage and litigation from pilots blaming the fuel for an engine failure. As an example: Most Lycoming O360’s can get a simple log book entry sign-out STC for using Mogas. At this time Continental 550’s can not use mogas. Nothing to do with the fuel suppliers. One of the main aircraft engine rebuilders in Oz has been finding a lot of problems in Robinson R22’s with the reduced lead content of the so-called 100LL. The lead content has been reduced in recent years being replaced with aromatics. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) On 10/05/2022 at 11:33 AM, Garfly said: Lead: terrible stuff in excess, though so is water. Re the video: I’d question the claim of lack of lead in the worlds oceans prior to leaded fuels. Lead is a naturally occurring mineral found in deposits all over Australia and the world. In Australia lead is naturally found in creeks and rivers that flow to the ocean. Lead is found in the dust blowing across Australia and in the smoke of bush fires. Lead is naturally found in a lot of bore water. Go swimming at the beach and lead can be found in sea spray. Aviation’s input into Australia’s overall atmospheric lead levels would be feck-all. . Edited August 30, 2022 by Flying Binghi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Agreed. Lead oxides, carbonates near the surface of the earth are quite soluble and get into the water system. Lead sulphides, deeper in the earth and unaltered, are much more stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said: Lead: terrible stuff in excess, though so is water. Re the video: I’d question the claim of lack of lead in the worlds oceans prior to leaded fuels. Lead is a naturally occurring mineral found in deposits all over Australia and the world. In Australia lead is naturally found in creeks and rivers that flow to the ocean. Lead is found in the dust blowing across Australia and in the smoke of bush fires. Lead is naturally found in a lot of bore water. Go swimming at the beach and lead can be found in sea spray. Aviation’s input into Australia’s overall atmospheric lead levels would be feck-all. . Sorry I don't get your point - lead like many other metals is found naturally in our environment, as is radiation of several types- this I understand. The Earth organisms are adapted to a "normal" background amount of all sorts of toxins but when these rise above normal unpleasant things are likely to results eg brain development in our young. Surely the point is the amount that is now found in our environment, since man started to use it in all sorts of ways (including IC engines)???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 (edited) Even low levels of lead are toxic to the human body, it's a cumulative toxin, similar to mercury. The lead is stored in the bones, then released back in the circulatory system, with differing levels of release for different people. Lead is particularly toxic for children with their developing brains, and neurological damage to the brain is the most subtle effect of lead - it reduces peoples IQ, when lead is ingested. I personally think lead ingestion may be responsible for much of the right-wing paranoia and extremism in the U.S. The lead levels in America were massive during the "huge gasoline V8" era of the 50's to 80's. Many Americans still have excessive lead levels in their bodies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1797860/ Edited August 30, 2022 by onetrack 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 11 hours ago, skippydiesel said: Sorry I don't get your point - lead like many other metals is found naturally in our environment, as is radiation of several types- this I understand. The Earth organisms are adapted to a "normal" background amount of all sorts of toxins but when these rise above normal unpleasant things are likely to results eg brain development in our young. Surely the point is the amount that is now found in our environment, since man started to use it in all sorts of ways (including IC engines)???? My point….. 99.999% of the engines using lead have gone. In the scheme of things the lead emissions of aircraft engines is feck all. I mention the natural occurrence of lead found all around us in the environment to counter the ill-considered argument that getting rid of avgas will mean zero exposure to lead - it won’t. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 You may be correct, in regard to the current contribution of AvGas to lead pollution, In my book its like arguing something is a small wrong, as if scale makes it acceptable - its wrong and that is it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 1 hour ago, skippydiesel said: You may be correct, in regard to the current contribution of AvGas to lead pollution, In my book its like arguing something is a small wrong, as if scale makes it acceptable - its wrong and that is it. That is the argument used by the Taliban against religious transgressors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 It is the concentration that is the issue. Like radiation. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Every lead-containing item affects a wide range of people - from the people involved in manufacturing it, to the people involved in handling it, to the people not directly involved, who ingest it as part of eventual atmospheric and particle contamination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 But it's still the higher doses that affect people. Silicon kills people I used to make silica bricks for lining blast furnaces The same silica on beaches. My Grandfather died of silicosis as did many coal miners. People who work and live at Broken Hill or Mt ISA get high quantities of lead as well as people in South London on busy street intersections years ago. On the flip side, many aero engines from the late 20s delivered higher power more reliably till the big pistons became obsolete post war so less passenger lives were lost there than would have been the case without tetra ethyl lead. Plastic today is in breast milk world wide and in all oceans. So is Round Up. I'm not against lead removal but it should be kept in context. I used to make my own lead batteries and pour lead sinkers and use lead paint on structural steel so I've probably been exposed to more than most. I wouldn't live at the two towns I mentioned though, if I was a young person. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 The article below goes a long way towards explaining why there's still so many Trump voters, and rabid preppers, and gun-fondlers in the U.S. https://today.duke.edu/2022/03/lead-exposure-last-century-shrunk-iq-scores-half-americans I'd hazard a guess that the soil in the U.S., and their game food, has probably doubled its lead levels since the Americans developed mass-production methods of cartridge ammunition and firearms. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161761/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Same in lands where Duck hunting has been done in Victoria. I think they are supposed to use Lead free shot since God obviously only created ducks to be blasted out of the sky for fun because having shot all through them doesn't make them easier to eat. Lead poisoning in the USA is a more rapid form of delivery (straight from the barrel of a gun).. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 2 hours ago, onetrack said: The article below goes a long way towards explaining why there's still so many Trump voters, and rabid preppers, and gun-fondlers in the U.S. https://today.duke.edu/2022/03/lead-exposure-last-century-shrunk-iq-scores-half-americans Hmmm… California is the state with the highest number of cars. They voted for senile Biden…🤨 Must be a lot of stupid people in France. WW1 left a lot of lead laying about… “…Alarming amounts of lead debris scattered by shrapnel were also left in place, contaminating the soil with non biodegradable lead, mercury and zinc likely to remain for at least 10,000 years to come…” https://www.messynessychic.com/2015/05/26/the-real-no-go-zone-of-france-a-forbidden-no-mans-land-poisoned-by-war/ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 A very sobering article indeed, and I would have to agree that the French IQ has been reduced by the military poisons and lead contamination of both WW1 and WW2. After all, before 1918, the French led in many areas of high technology - aviation, chemistry, physics, engineering - even military tank design. The Americans took French tanks back to the U.S. after WW1 and copied them. Kegresse invented the half-track and the dual clutch transmission, and many French inventions topped the list in that era. But after WW1 - not so much appeared that was world-beating French technology. Perhaps their achievements were curtailed by their war losses, but it's highly likely lead ingestion also played a part in the loss of their technology lead. FYI, 18% of the cars in California are EV's - more than triple the U.S. average. So they're doing more than their fair share towards reducing air pollution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) Also California is the first state in the US to ban the sale of ICE cars from 2035 and it has the strictest emission standards in the US. Also with 39.2 million people it is easily the most populous state in the US so having the most cars is obvious. Edited August 31, 2022 by kgwilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Flying Binghi said: Hmmm… California is the state with the highest number of cars. They voted for senile Biden…🤨 Okey FB, I’ll bite. What evidence of senility? Biden has consistently run intellectual rings around the orange grub. Perhaps if you widen your sources of news you will discover how well Biden’s administration has done in repairing the damage done by trump and his criminals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Old K, you forgot the veritable tirade of degrading abuse anytime anyone went against the Donalds desired plans. Not to mention the constant (and still-ongoing) claims of voter fraud - which after initiating a plethora of lawsuits claiming he had proof of voter fraud, he hasn't been able to produce one iota of evidence that stands up to court scrutiny! His cases have even been thrown out by judges he appointed! The long list of Trump lawyers can be recognised by their record of being disbarred, jailed, suspended, or being threatened with disbarring! https://www.politico.com/news/2022/07/05/trump-maga-lawyers-00043917 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Look how Trump treated his loyal running mate and Vice President, Mike Pence. The "NOOSE" was for him. Anyone who says anything against him is pursued relentlessly. Real Charmer. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 Back to topic. The FAA have now approved a new No Lead 100 avgas. Look it up on AVweb.. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 I saw that Avweb alert this morning. Gami have had all sorts of delay thrown at them from the FAA since they made the first proposal back in 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 On 31/08/2022 at 3:18 PM, onetrack said: A very sobering article indeed, and I would have to agree that the French IQ has been reduced by the military poisons and lead contamination of both WW1 and WW2. After all, before 1918, the French led in many areas of high technology - aviation, chemistry, physics, engineering - even military tank design. The Americans took French tanks back to the U.S. after WW1 and copied them. Kegresse invented the half-track and the dual clutch transmission, and many French inventions topped the list in that era. But after WW1 - not so much appeared that was world-beating French technology. Perhaps their achievements were curtailed by their war losses, but it's highly likely lead ingestion also played a part in the loss of their technology lead. FYI, 18% of the cars in California are EV's - more than triple the U.S. average. So they're doing more than their fair share towards reducing air pollution. What proof have you got that French IQ has been reduced by lead? America’s aerospace and computer industries were mainly based in high lead California and were making astounding advances after and during the time of the big lead burning cars. Me-thinks yer off with the red herrings..😉 Again, like most things, the dose is the issue. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 On 31/08/2022 at 4:51 PM, Old Koreelah said: Okey FB, I’ll bite. What evidence of senility? Biden has consistently run intellectual rings around the orange grub. Perhaps if you widen your sources of news you will discover how well Biden’s administration has done in repairing the damage done by trump and his criminals. …Afghanistan debacle, all thanks to senile Biden…🤨 Meanwhile… German leaders in particular literally laughed out loud at America’s 45th president at the United Nations when he criticized their energy relationship with Russia, claiming that they were totally dependent four years ago. Instead, Germany opted to listen to folks like Greta Thunberg — a teenager fully indoctrinated by climate change charlatans — and push green energy. https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-was-right-world-leaders-were-wrong-russia-just-cut-off-germanys-fuel-supply-whos-laughing-now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 The Gami G100ul approval https://www.avweb.com/ownership/fuel-news/gami-unleaded-avgas-stcs-approved-for-ga-piston-fleet/ This will be good news for owners of turbocharged piston aircraft who live in California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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