Filling high-wing tanks

[facthunter]

Cigarette lighter socket  is not sparksafe. It's a pretty low grade piece of kit.   Nev

[pmccarthy]

On 25/12/2022 at 10:39 AM, Neil_S said:

 

I have been using one of these for several years with no problem - just fill from a 10 litre container using a Mr Funnel to eliminate any water or contaminants....then put into the filler neck on the plane. No issue with overflow as it automatically stops when the fuel level reaches the nozzle. I think they are $69.

 

Cheers,

Neil

I have just ordered one of these. Looks like the easiest way to avoid spills.

[Carbon Canary]

On 25/12/2022 at 11:46 AM, Kenlsa said:

A mate uses this model and it works very well. I will get one for my Colt when it is finished 

Ken

If you get a chance can you ask your mate how much lift these things will deliver to ? ie. will they pump directly upwards say, 1m ….and how much slower is the delivery at that height ?

[facthunter]

It's easy to work out the pressure involved to lift fuel any height. Water  (SG 1) Is 1/2 lb per foot (just under) and take 3/4 of that for the fuel equivalent.  3-4 Lbs /sq in covers it plus fluid friction. Small dia pipe will slow you down.  Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

My 12 volt fuel setup mounted on an old laundry trolley is used at my home hangar to ease all my refuelling.  It draws power from either the aircraft or a battery I have on solar charge that is on a small trolley truck and used also if anyone has a flat battery on aircraft or car.

 

In the field I like the 10 liter at a time to refuel and have a small folding step in the aircraft that doubles as a seat to get a bit higher up to pour the fuel in via a Mr Funnel that is carried onboard.

 

10 liters in the container allows better control of the pour at arms length.  Also consider the wind direction so no spill / splash is carried onto the windscreens, as pouring mogas.

 

Cheers

What is your aircrafts fuel capacity?

[onetrack]

1 hour ago, Carbon Canary said:

https://www.amazon.com.au/specious-Charging-Delivery-Transfer-Gasoline/dp/B0B9RTCXVP/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?adgrpid=85742440023&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3PXD18WY_AIVWw4rCh0jJwqdEAAYAiAAEgKItPD_BwE&hvadid=591150119655&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9071776&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=12436409885975332070&hvtargid=kwd-345150442994&hydadcr=22540_362593&keywords=12v+gasoline+transfer+pump&qid=1672102450&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExWDZTNTJNNzE2UklHJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTA5OTEwOTVHNU0zTDhHNEgxJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTEzM1lSRDlTVDhDMDkmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
 

 

Well, here is a 12V portable “gasoline” pump that plugs into the cigarette lighter for just over $30. The delivery hose looks suspiciously small diameter, but will apparently deliver 7-8 

L/min. 
Anyone brave enough to see if this is intrinsically safe ??

"Specious", as a description??

 

Dictionary definition of "specious" - "misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive."

 

I think that about sums it up, pretty well!

[Carbon Canary]

3 minutes ago, onetrack said:

"Specious", as a description??

 

Dictionary definition of "specious" - "misleading in appearance, especially misleadingly attractive."

 

I think that about sums it up, pretty well!

Indeed !  it comes under the heading of “if it’s too good to be true, it probably is”

I don’t particularly want to save a few $ on a pump only to end up in hospital (if I was lucky) and watch my $$ aircraft burn to the axles.

[facthunter]

Has anybody progressed the idea of an external power socket?  Could come in useful for a few things  like jump starting from a large battery and conserving yours for flight..  Nev

[Blueadventures]

25 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

What is your aircrafts fuel capacity?

110 litres.

[RFguy]

6 hours ago, IBob said:

Sorry, should have been 294joules (so yes, brain is clearly Christmas fried).
But still a huge disparity..........

Pretty good Bob

there is certainly efficiency though to contend with,

1) small motor efficiency probably 50%. so input power now 2x294 = 588J.

2) any filter to push fuel through ?

3) hose- say 4m of 1/2" hose  in a circle is 0.1 bar at 10 lpm gasoline  , 166e-06 m3/sec, energy loss = ~ 1.66 J/S and 2 minutes= 200 J
likely input cost ~ 800 to 900 J.
 

[jackc]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Has anybody progressed the idea of an external power socket?  Could come in useful for a few things  like jump starting from a large battery and conserving yours for flight..  Nev

Not for a factory 24 rego, unless makers STC?

[facthunter]

They always say EXP VH is the way to go..  Nev

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, Blueadventures said:

110 litres.

So, potentially 10 X 10 litre jugs of fuel (allowing that you may have run down to reserve, depending on engine). That's 10 opportunities to have an accident, allow for fuel contamination, etc et.c

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

Has anybody progressed the idea of an external power socket?  Could come in useful for a few things  like jump starting from a large battery and conserving yours for flight..  Nev

Yes  -My aircraft is fitted with an Anderson plug direct to battery. Its the only circuit not isolated by the master switch, so can be used for battery boost/charge and as a source of power. The Anderson is accessed through the top cowl inspection door. When not in use is red Velcro'd securely the underlying engine components and has a rubber cap reducing the chance of inadvertent terminal contact..

 

Note:

• The grey Anderson plugs are not hydrocarbon safe, even a small petrol spill will cause them to disintegrate. The red Anderson plugs are chemical resistant BUT not available in Australia.
• Having a "live" circuit is an added risk - take this into consideration when deciding to install - use high quality insulated wire & connector's rated above the highest expected load.

[facthunter]

Very selective analysis. No one has mentioned JUGS. Any bad occurrence is very manageable and if you take the required time, very safe.  etc etc implies WHAT? . A PROPER 10L container is weight manageable and safe especially if capped. No weight is put on the top of the wing structure.  You'd have to be asleep to cause an overflow..   Nev

[facthunter]

Re the Plug for ext power. It needn't be live to the ext power is connected. Automatic relay with light in the cockpit when energised.    Nev

[Blueadventures]

32 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

So, potentially 10 X 10 litre jugs of fuel (allowing that you may have run down to reserve, depending on engine). That's 10 opportunities to have an accident, allow for fuel contamination, etc et.c

Actually zero as put through a Mr Funnel.

[skippydiesel]

7 minutes ago, facthunter said:

Very selective analysis. No one has mentioned JUGS. Any bad occurrence is very manageable and if you take the required time, very safe.  etc etc implies WHAT? . A PROPER 10L container is weight manageable and safe especially if capped. No weight is put on the top of the wing structure.  You'd have to be asleep to cause an overflow..   Nev

Sorry - I used jugs as a generic container thought bubble 

 

As for implication - if it suits your operation - good on yah! It would not suit mine. Not only would I not want to carry multiple 10L containers (having 10 x 20L is more than enough) or the alternative make 10 fill, transfer to aircraft, decant procedures. More fill/decant cycles must expose the fuel to higher risk of contamination & spillage - its just the number of repetitions. Is the 10L person going to securely cap his container every repetition?, is his focus going to be absolute when poring? so preventing spillage - is he human?

My consistent idea/suggestion is to get away from the physical effort of lifting heavy containers (or multiple smaller ones) - I can manage 2x20L lifted from the ground & walk with straight arms, quite easily - lifting above this has become problematic, hence the desirability of an effective pumping system that avoids the  lift/decant action. I think I have it - it would be nice to be able to purchase a quality of the shelf unit (with all the safety features in place) but I have yet to find one.

[skippydiesel]

6 minutes ago, Blueadventures said:

Actually zero as put through a Mr Funnel.

I hope your Mr Funnel sits more securely than mine - very easy to tip and the pouring action leaves the stream of fuel vulnerable to wind gust spillage.

 

Mr Funnel's do not have a sealing top/bottom cap - potential for fuel contamination is much increased.

Edited December 27, 2022 by skippydiesel

[Kenlsa]

2 hours ago, Carbon Canary said:

If you get a chance can you ask your mate how much lift these things will deliver to ? ie. will they pump directly upwards say, 1m ….and how much slower is the delivery at that height ?

He is away for Christmas but we lifted the fuel about 1.3m from the ground to a fuel cap at the top of the boot cowl on a Mini Cab

Ken

[facthunter]

You are only doing it away from home and when there's no facilities at the place you chose to refill at One good plastic container with filler and handle weighs near nothing. If it's capped when not used where's the crap coming from? More chance of getting muck in when you remove the filer cap. Or leave it OFF.   Nev

[Blueadventures]

12 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

I hope your Mr Funnel sits more securely than mine - very easy to tip and the pouring action leaves the stream of fuel vulnerable to wind gust spillage.

 

Mr Funnel's do not have a sealing top/bottom cap - potential for fuel contamination is much increased.

Sits good in the filler and have a punkin head cover to keep clear.  Just one of the many ways to keep things clean and in check.

[Carbon Canary]

14 minutes ago, Kenlsa said:

He is away for Christmas but we lifted the fuel about 1.3m from the ground to a fuel cap at the top of the boot cowl on a Mini Cab

Ken

Thanks ! That’s good enough for me.

I was looking for something small, light and portable for ‘away’ refuelling that could lift fuel around 75cm from a collapsible jerry can suspended from the tiedown eyebolt at the top of the strut to the top of the wing.

Lifting a jerry ‘bag’ to a hook at shoulder height is no problem (so far - a lot easier than top of wing) and a pump version with on/off nozzle virtually eliminates spills. It also means it becomes a single-handed operation as the jerry bag doesn’t need to be supported while it is suspended.

Problem solved for me.

[Flightrite]

Christ all we want do is put gas in a tank that’s above our head height. I use a 10L jerry placed on the wing with one of those cheap and nasty D  battery powered spike pumps from Ebay, a back up jiggle syphon does just as well,  jobs done. I’m getting g a headache reading all this mumbo jumbo😂

Edited December 27, 2022 by Flightrite

[onetrack]

The Anderson plugs are NOT colour-coded to denote chemical resistance - they are different colours, according to their power rating or designed job - and the chemical-resistant versions are merely marked with a "P" to indicate their construction is PBT material (Poly butylene Terephthalate).

 

https://www.andersonpower.com/content/dam/app/ecommerce/product-pdfs/PP75/ds-cr.pdf

 

https://www.amae.net.au/2018/12/05/all-about-anderson-plugs-explained/

 

You cannot connect any colour Anderson plug to any colour Anderson plug. You can only connect the same coloured Anderson plugs.

There are also "genderless" Anderson plugs and Anderson plugs that cannot be mated, because they're designed with a different connection design.

 

https://australianoffroad.com.au/owners/handbook/anderson-plugs/

 

You also need to be aware there are Anderson copycat plugs, which are totally inferior to the genuine Anderson plugs.