Jabiru engine failure

[corvairkr]

It plainly states pre existing cracks as to how bad they were is open for conjecture are you neglecting giving us that part of the information on purpose to soil the name of a good aircraft or are you ignorant of that fact Dan

Dan I copied the report in its entirety of the RAA website,which I'm sure you are quite capable of checking for yourself.

If you you have a problem with how it's written you're probably better off directing your comments at the tech manager.

 

Jason

 

 

[dan3111]

It plainly states pre existing cracks as to how bad they were is open for conjecture are you neglecting giving us that part of the information on purpose to soil the name of a good aircraft or are you ignorant of that fact Dan

I though ignorant was I person that owned one and don,t acknowledge that it could happen to them as well .

 

 

[storchy neil]

Storchy, does this return line go from the carby , the chamber on top of the float-valve, back to the fuel tank? And two lines, one for each of the carbys?

 

the return line goes from the fuel manifold back to tank the line to the tank has a restriction in it to maintain the required pressure to carby neil

 

 

[facthunter]

What is the material used. Two millimetres of poly carbonate and it's a fair area unsupported. How much time had it spent in the direct sunlight and is there any vibration in flight? Of course none of them take a strike by even a small bird. The strength is an illusion

 

 

[ozbear]

If you go to any fly in you see a lot worse then this even in GA air craft . Yes screen show small craze in corners plane was under two years old . How ever with the design there no support in the middle centre tubes going down like a lot of aircraft so screen is like a car just held around edge . So under big stress a weakness any where and all over red rover with only 2mm poly carbonate . Craze also folks can happen any time any where so there is no redunency in design .

One thing with the foxbats is their cruise speeds and weight have been increasing over the years since the a22 first came out and maybe a Upgrade of some items may be needed and so I'm sorry I was a bit short with u Dan after all we are all in this together and taking shots at each other isn't the way to change and improve things

 

 

[dan3111]

Dan I copied the report in its entirety of the RAA website,which I'm sure you are quite capable of checking for yourself.If you you have a problem with how it's written you're probably better off directing your comments at the tech manager.

Jason

I have no problem with any report at all, just have a problem with no Foxbat owner even knows anything about it due to lack of passing any info on which might save some one . How many 601 wing spars folded up before someone thought it might not be the pilot or lack of maintenance.

 

 

[ozbear]

What is the material used. Two millimetres of poly carbonate and it's a fair area unsupported. How much time had it spent in the direct sunlight and is there any vibration in flight? Of course none of them take a strike by even a small bird. The strength is an illusion

Hi Nev I've been using my Foxbat to chase Wedgetail Eagles off my sheep they just carry them away and chasing them off with the Foxbat has forced them into the next valley over and they leave me alone maybe I better stop doing that

 

 

[facthunter]

Maybe. You aren't going that fast, but they may attack the plane. if they just clear out that would be better. There is more about. They have made somewhat of a recovery I think. Nev

 

 

[ozbear]

Maybe. You aren't going that fast, but they may attack the plane. if they just clear out that would be better. There is more about. They have made somewhat of a recovery I think. Nev

Yep they are plentiful where my farm is Mullion Creek ,Mullion is the aboriginal word for eagle I would never shoot them they are magnificent creatures but they try my patience when they carry lambs off in front of me they havnt attacked the plane yet but when I had the thrusters they would fly beside me giving me a good look over

 

 

[corvairkr]

I have no problem with any report at all, just have a problem with no Foxbat owner even knows anything about it due to lack of passing any info on which might save some one . How many 601 wing spars folded up before someone thought it might not be the pilot or lack of maintenance.

My apologies Dan ...it appeared to me that Ozbear had a crack at me about not including the full report in my post #93 and signed of as Dan when in fact he was referring to you ...I was wrong on both counts :)

But FYI the 601 HDS type in my avatar haven't had any structural issues ....the 601XL .....well that's a different story.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I'm sorry I was a bit short with u Dan after all we are all in this together and taking shots at each other isn't the way to change and improve things

Well done Mate, that's what Men do.

 

 

[Dwilly]

If it's LSA then it's up to manufacturer or importer to notify ownersWithout reporting they can easily say it hasn't happened

Data is the key to making solid decisions

 

Filtering through that info to make decisions is a secondary problem but the info needs to be there

 

There's nothing to say Jabiru problems are more or less reported than anything else. If you think just 10% of problems are reported then. REc flying is incredibly dangerous.

Yes

 

 

[SilverWing]

I know of one fox bat that no one rushes to fly as fuel vapor locks are there time to time . Know of a different foxbat lost its windscreen in flight no warning I bet RAA has not even told all owners of this? after it,s been reported with photos . Safety ??? what would be unsafe about losing your wrind screen at 85 knots doors blowing off why would let owners know that might scare them wouldn,t make sence to keep owners in the loop . If it was the raaf all off type would be grounded until all check in place? any one agree ?I think there would only be 10 percent of people report there jabiru engine problems we been there and done that and moved on some one else can be a test rig .

First, I have great empathy with the pilots and passengers who experience door, canopy and windscreen failures - I have experienced a bubble canopy coming open in flight myself; it was not a pleasant experience. In comparison, losing a piece of windshield must have been extremely frightening. Thankfully, such experiences are extremely rare.

 

A few facts about the above references to the Foxbat may be helpful.

 

1. There have been no reported cases of 'vapour lock' in the 1000+ worldwide fleet of Foxbats - except for one aircraft in SE Queensland. This is because the wing tanks provide a continual fuel pressure of at least 0.5 bar to the pump, precluding the possibility of vapour lock. Almost certainly the cause for the reported engine misfiring in SE Queensland was carburettor ice: long descent from altitude, high humidity, no engine warming, misfire disappears as the aircraft descends into and remains in warmer air.

 

2. Apart from one documented birdstrike in SE Queensland, there have been two reported windscreen failures in Foxbats worldwide - one in Kazakhstan and one in SE Queensland. That's a rate of 0.002%. The Foxbat windshield is 2mm polycarbonate sheet, UV-proofed and scratch resistant, manufactured by Veralite in Belgium; it is the same as other polycarbonate sheet manufactured under trade names like Lexan, The product is used because it has excellent weather resistance and remains flexible even after prolonged UV exposure. Both incident aircraft were known to have had substantial cracks in the windscreens before the incidents, particularly along the front edge by the firewall. Cracks can be induced for a variety of reasons - they are most common in flying school aircraft, which have very high landing numbers per hours flown and more than their fair share of heavy landings.

 

The Foxbat maintenance manual clearly covers what to do if cracks appear in the windscreen, including replacement in some circumstances. Personally, if I found a windscreen crack in any aircraft longer than an inch/25mm or multiple small cracks, I'd replace the screen rather than stop drill the cracks.

 

 

[RKW]

First, I have great empathy with the pilots and passengers who experience door, canopy and windscreen failures - I have experienced a bubble canopy coming open in flight myself; it was not a pleasant experience. In comparison, losing a piece of windshield must have been extremely frightening. Thankfully, such experiences are extremely rare.A few facts about the above references to the Foxbat may be helpful.

 

1. There have been no reported cases of 'vapour lock' in the 1000+ worldwide fleet of Foxbats - except for one aircraft in SE Queensland. This is because the wing tanks provide a continual fuel pressure of at least 0.5 bar to the pump, precluding the possibility of vapour lock. Almost certainly the cause for the reported engine misfiring in SE Queensland was carburettor ice: long descent from altitude, high humidity, no engine warming, misfire disappears as the aircraft descends into and remains in warmer air.

 

2. Apart from one documented birdstrike in SE Queensland, there have been two reported windscreen failures in Foxbats worldwide - one in Kazakhstan and one in SE Queensland. That's a rate of 0.002%. The Foxbat windshield is 2mm polycarbonate sheet, UV-proofed and scratch resistant, manufactured by Veralite in Belgium; it is the same as other polycarbonate sheet manufactured under trade names like Lexan, The product is used because it has excellent weather resistance and remains flexible even after prolonged UV exposure. Both incident aircraft were known to have had substantial cracks in the windscreens before the incidents, particularly along the front edge by the firewall. Cracks can be induced for a variety of reasons - they are most common in flying school aircraft, which have very high landing numbers per hours flown and more than their fair share of heavy landings.

 

The Foxbat maintenance manual clearly covers what to do if cracks appear in the windscreen, including replacement in some circumstances. Personally, if I found a windscreen crack in any aircraft longer than an inch/25mm or multiple small cracks, I'd replace the screen rather than stop drill the cracks.

This particular Foxbat had small cracks in the windscreen when the owners went to pick it up brand new, but you already know this. The owner had to wait months for a replacement under warranty which never showed up. You are also aware of this.

 

 

[SilverWing]

This particular Foxbat had small cracks in the windscreen when the owners went to pick it up brand new, but you already know this. The owner had to wait months for a replacement under warranty which never showed up. You are also aware of this.

I think that a few facts have become chinese whispers here. When the owners picked up the aircraft, there was one small crack about 5mm long from a rivet in the bottom right corner of the windshield - which I photographed at the time. The windscreen failure was nowhere near and completely unrelated to this crack. No-one ever requested a warranty replacement windscreen. I offered cover the cost if the owners wanted to replace it locally. I am unaware of any contact from the owners advising me they had or would replace the screen.

 

PS - I was only made aware of other windscreen cracks after the incident.

 

 

[Heather]

Unbelievable!

 

What you read on forums.

 

 

[JimG]

Moderators , perhaps a new thread could be started as it seems this thread has been hi- jacked by this Foxbat discussion .

 

Cheers

 

Jim G

 

 

[DrZoos]

Unbelievable!What you read on forums.

What humans discussing things, with all sorts of opinions, prejudices and presumptions...seems pretty normal behaviour to me

 

 

[Heather]

Not talking about that.

 

I am talking about a certain few posts with questionable facts.

 

 

[storchy neil]

Hey mods please pretty please make foxbat new thread Neil

 

 

[Keith Page]

What humans discussing things, with all sorts of opinions, prejudices and presumptions...seems pretty normal behaviour to me

Yep those bush barristers and 5 minute experts they are the gospel to live by. Just ask them they will tell you the unadulterated truth and it is 100% accurate.

Guess what I know which knowledge NOT to base to use.

 

I use a saying and it is quite appropriate. "I would love to buy them at my price and sell them at their price".

 

KP

 

 

[Yenn]

So what did happen to that Jab which started this whole shemozzle?

 

I think it was just a case of jab bashing which can't be substantiated. Would the originator care to give us a follow up.

 

 

[Heather]

This particular Foxbat had small cracks in the windscreen when the owners went to pick it up brand new, but you already know this. The owner had to wait months for a replacement under warranty which never showed up. You are also aware of this.

Why is it when anything is reported to be wrong you are told oh you are the only one with this problem!

 

How come people tick false facts when they have no idea what has been happening?

 

This is what I mean by unbelievable!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Why is it when anything is reported to be wrong you are told oh you are the only one with this problem

Because some people don't report their issues, which makes it easy for the manufacturer to claim that you are the only one to have the problem.

 

 

[Keith Page]

So what did happen to that Jab which started this whole shemozzle?I think it was just a case of jab bashing which can't be substantiated. Would the originator care to give us a follow up.

Oi! Yen.. He most likely run out of fuel and with embarrassment gone and hid. Now the 5 min. experts are continuing the noise.

KP.