red750 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 A Vans RV-9A flipped on landing at French Island on 21 Jan 2023. The pilot was flown by helicopter to Royal Melbourne Hospital with undefined injuries. It is believed the aircraft departed from Tooradin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Not good.. Any more news? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 The nosewheel looked to be against the floor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Gearon Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Pilot is okay. Passenger had a few injuries. Airlifted to hospital. Passenger is now fine. Strong variable tail wind and yes the nose collapsed. If that nose wheel assembly was stronger it would have been a different story. Apparently this is an RV problem. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 From Channel 2 News 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 (edited) They're OK as long as the nosewheel doesn't catch on an obstruction or drops into a hole and digs in, or you don't wheelbarrow the landing. The nosewheel on most RV's is smaller than the mains although on the RV-12 they are all the same size. Fortunate that the injuries don't appear too serious. Edited January 21, 2023 by rgmwa 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poteroo Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Mike Gearon said: Apparently this is an RV problem. Only if you don't look after it. The 9A has such capable pitch control that it can be taxied nosewheel off. No need to have it touch until well under 35 kts. 12 years owning one. happy days, 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 And to think that pilots build/buy RV 'As' (with a nose wheel) because they worry about a tail dragger tipping over... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love to fly Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 39 minutes ago, pylon500 said: And to think that pilots build/buy RV 'As' (with a nose wheel) because they worry about a tail dragger tipping over... Doubt that's why pilots build or buy them. Certainly wasn't a consideration for us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Nosewheels on most aircraft are a weak point especially in rough landing spots. That's why Bush planes are taildraggers. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Gearon Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Could have been any one of us and he’s beat up over his friend being hurt. He did a great job pulling the passenger from the aircraft. The good part was when his friend called from hospital and was okay. Well, very okay. They must have started using the good drugs. While I wasn’t impressed with the Vans nose gear (rans S21 is much thicker) the steel tube (roll bar?) above the screen looked like it could have taken a lot more abuse just fine. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 IF you make the nosewheel stronger the bulkhead will break. ALL nosewheels are relatively weak and not there for extreme loads. It's obviously gone over at a low speed. You'd have to be there to know what the circumstances were. Nev 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 At low speed there would not be enough energy to cause a turn over. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 A tail wind can lift the tail at zero speed if it's gusty. The plane appears to be undamaged apart from the nose strut. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 What facthunter is saying is that as the speed dropped off, there was only just enough energy left for it to flip over. A flip over at high speed would have crushed a lot more components, and bent or fractured the fuselage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris SS Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 17 hours ago, Mike Gearon said: Apparently this is an RV problem. It’s not. It’s a pilot problem. Thousands of RVs fly thousands of landings every day. If you treat them properly this doesn’t happen. The biggest killer of RV nosewheels is too much speed on final, followed by thinking you’re finished landing before the aeroplane has come to a complete stop. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Ones fitted with a Subaru motor had a very weak nosewheel as there was limited room for it. Near the sea you get tricky winds, Remember where you put the elevator when taxiiing downwind? Anyhow it could have been a rabbit hole. Braking transfers weight to the nosewheel also. No one crashes on purpose.. Nev 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Does anyone know what the strip surface was like? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Gearon Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 hours ago, facthunter said: IF you make the nosewheel stronger the bulkhead will break. ALL nosewheels are relatively weak and not there for extreme loads. It's obviously gone over at a low speed. You'd have to be there to know what the circumstances were. Nev Yes, I was there. I’d like to stop replaying the incident in my head. Yes, it went over at a low speed. Damn close to not going over which would have been much the preferred outcome. Cessna make a damn fine nose wheel assembly. I can’t see why the lighter categories are all following each other with the pissy assembly. It’d be easy enough to have it on a pivot and shock and spread the load between firewall and fuselage a little aft. Combination of shock able to work. Triangulation and spread load. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Gearon Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, turboplanner said: Does anyone know what the strip surface was like? Very good. It’s quite flat where the incident happened. Tail wind was a major factor. Nothing wrong with the runway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgwilson Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Cessna nose legs fail too. The 172 & above have pretty beefy Oleo strut noselegs but they are heavy complex and expensive. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 The rocks hitting the chrome oleo and making the seals leak is the costly part. ALL nosewheels have to be treated carefully. You should never let them arrive first or fall on the runway after the mainwheels contact. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love to fly Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Really glad pilot and pax are okay. Very experienced & competent pilot so I'm guessing there were other factors. RV's are built to be either tailwheel or nosewheel, with the decision being made pre/during the build. A few have been converted afterwards. Landing profile in an A isn't dissimilar to that of a tailwheel and the nose wheel is definitely not designed to be landed on. But then no nosewheel is. For a while, during a particular period in time, nosewheel collapses at Moorabbin were almost common. None of these were in RV's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Love to fly said: For a while, during a particular period in time, nosewheel collapses at Moorabbin were almost common. None of these were in RV's. When I've seen a series of failures it's been from an Instructor teaching his/her students to do miltary point and shoot approaches where they usually hit first with the nosewheel, with predictable results. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thruster88 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Mike Gearon said: Very good. It’s quite flat where the incident happened. Tail wind was a major factor. Nothing wrong with the runway. Was landing in the opposite direction possible or not due to slope? As an RV nosewheel operator I am curious if they were able to break the canopy and escape without outside help. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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