RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[slartibartfast]

Update on the RAAus website:

 

"Management is aware that there is a communication problem, but we're not about to start talking to the members about it."

 

As of today, I can no longer fly. I tried to renew 2 weeks ago, was led to believe a computer problem would delay that by a day, then told that renewals would resume last Friday and I would be contacted if there was a problem.

 

No contact, no registration, no flying, no happy.

 

I'll be at the meeting Andy.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's not right, but don't get mad, (get even) is what usually follows. (Get IT fixed) is what is really needed. Perhaps I should have a ceremonial burning of the Fisher. There has ben nothing but confusion and uncertainty for the last six years. There has to be a time when enough is enough, ( unless you are tomo's age, and can sit it out, or just fly GA) Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Yes ... But did you sign the form to enter the meeting Mr Slackeryfartingblaster ... ROFL.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Anyone / business taking on CASA with Lawyers is either stark raving mad or equipped with balls so large the testosterone has masked good judgement ...I will always remember what my barrister told me years ago in a court action I took against a major Telco :

 

"... remember David, if you want justice you wont get it from the Courts ... justice is only available to those who can afford it ..."

An often repeated piece of fiction - the reality is different, but of course you have to have a case and you have to have the proof.

 

 

[David Isaac]

An often repeated piece of fiction - the reality is different, but of course you have to have a case and you have to have the proof.

Which of course I did on both counts and won ... But it was a Pyric victory, so justice was hardly done HH.

 

 

[jetjr]

id say the adequate warning was given after first 3 failed audits

 

 

[Captain]

As of today, I can no longer fly. I tried to renew 2 weeks ago, was led to believe a computer problem would delay that by a day, then told that renewals would resume last Friday and I would be contacted if there was a problem.No contact, no registration, no flying, no happy.

I'll be at the meeting Andy.

Sorry to hear that you have been burnt by this Ross. You are the 1st that I know personally, and it brings home just how poorly this entire fiasco has been managed by those that are entrusted to do so by the membership.

 

 

[Captain]

And I continue to see that mis-use of power and control and the consequent intimidation and bullying of anyone who raises objections.

I see that Stephen Smith said "Sorry" yesterday to all members of the Military who had been intimidated or bullied by others in the services.

 

I wonder whether that "sorry" extends to RAA Board members? ............................ But to be fair (how sick is that?), it was also a big issue when Reid was President and possibly before that.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Still trying to get a handle on our current governance and management arrangements.......From what I am hearing there has been a "management committee" (not a board) of elected members that are expected to also provide operational contributions as well as governance. To assist this process an "Executive Committee" of office bearers (Chair, Secretary and Treasurer - and other selected members?) work alongside the CEO and paid staff to deliver member services.

 

One of those services is the government contract with CASA - a contract that is specific in its deliverables, regulation and compliance. A legal, binding contract that allows the RAAus to self-regulate and which has been signed off by the Chairperson, on behalf of RAAus. Under normal arrangements the servicing of the contract would be the responsibility of the CEO and staff. However because of the "Executive Committee" member/staff composition, the line of authority has the Chair also taking some management and operational responsibility i.e under the "committee of management" model/structure. I do not have a grip on that arrangement.

 

I would be pleased if some of the ex committee of management members could respond to the above. If we can better understand the current governance/management structure, it will be easier for members with experience and expertise, to provide their comments.

 

Pete

 

 

[turboplanner]

Pete, best not to guess at it - It's all laid out in the Constitution and Rules, both of which are on the RAA website.

 

There has been a mass of disinformation posted in the last couple of months and I'm not sure that hasn't been deliberate (not referring to your post)

 

 

[slartibartfast]

Yes ... But did you sign the form to enter the meeting Mr Slackeryfartingblaster ... ROFL.

Hi Mr Camp David (not that there's anything wrong with that).

I've been waiting until I get a round tuit.

 

I have a bid in on eBay for one. I'll see how that goes.

 

The above mentioned crap has convinced me to use the "buy it now" option.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Turbz is correct ... problem is the Board appears to ignore the constitution .... therefore what we have is not necessarily what we should have

 

 

[rotor]

Just found this thread .... I'm unregistered now so it seems ...

 

S h i t ... 37 pages to browse through people!!!!!! I've got to ask the question - WTF is going on!!!

 

 

[dodo]

If we knew, it would be because the board told us something, sometimes, which they don't. So we speculate, dicuss, and it seems a plan has formed. Not sure if everyone agrres with that plan...

 

dodo

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Just found this thread .... I'm unregistered now so it seems ...

 

S h i t ... 37 pages to browse through people!!!!!! I've got to ask the question - WTF is going on!!!

 

Don't know....... and thats the problem. The people running this show won't tell us either.

 

 

[Guest SAJabiruflyer]

Ring your Board Member

 

 

[rankamateur]

Where did the general meeting signiture form get too?, I have sent mine in already, but my CFI is sitting in the caravan in my front garden and I can't find it to print out for him.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Ring your Board Member

You know the irony here is that about 2 years ago Verbal blows were exchanged between myself and people like Captain and Turboplanner where the things I was posting were almost word for word what you are saying.

 

To me at the time It was unthinkable that things were as bad as they were stating and I thought they and some of the other contributers were delusional. However over time they and others have drip fed details that time and time again have checked out. I still from time to time have problems with the emotivness that is brought to bear in these debates and would prefer that they are mereley statements of fact that people can check for themselves but to be honest forums without emotion is probably as likely as me winning lotto.

 

I believe it is unarguably the case that the current circumstances are as bad as we have ever seen in RAAUS in the short time Ive been a member (approx 8 years) and under our democratic processes the only people who the membership can hold to account are the board. They can be held to account for their own failings, or their lack of oversight of the employees.

 

Furthermore the things that are wrong at present will take a concerted effort to put right, but before we do that we need to remove the reasons they went wrong in the first place.

 

I'd point you back to those connversations so you can see that I was indeed arguing as you are now, but all of the governing body hiostory was removed about a year ago (+/- 6 months) and the history that could show this is a recuring theme isnt on this site any longer

 

Im sure Captain and Turboplanneer will "Like" this email and can therefore attest to its accuracy that I was indeed their biggest opponent back then and yet I find myself firmly on the otherside of the fence now as a result of checks and tests of claims made where I can.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Where did the general meeting signiture form get too?, I have sent mine in already, but my CFI is sitting in the caravan in my front garden and I can't find it to print out for him.

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/time-for-significant-changes.51448/#post-254009

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

..a quick question....did the RAA members know we failed the first, second and third audits??...

Don Ramsay asked questions on this at teh AGM and it was disclosed there. Furthermore it was disclosed that an "un-named" aircraft that was registered 24 was grounded as a result of being unable to fulfill the registration requirements. SO those grounded recently can have some sympathy for Ibis owners who have been grounded far longer that the failure of the 4th audit.....

 

I posted details of that on or around the 22nd of August September this year on this site as I went home from the AGM

 

Ozzie posted here with some early pointers that things were not all good:-

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/raa-aus-resignations.38893/page-6#post-216956

 

 

[Captain]

On the subject of Executive vitreol, or alleged attempted intimidation or alleged attempted bullying of the member's elected representatives, I note Kiwi's post in another thread with what purports to be an email from John McK's today, the text of which reads as below (the words in red have been coloured by me)

 

Hi all, I am sending this to each of you personally. This is not a Board email, and as such I have deleted Runciman's name. I will also copy this email, ( not the offensive resignation letter at this stage) to relevant club office bearers in my local area. Since Steve had resigned yesterday afternoon, I was going to let his numerous unsavoury statements about me in his resignation letter slide. Now he has withdrawn his resignation this morning I will take advise on whether to continue to let his libel comments slide, take this matter further legally, or release the document to the Membership as it is not on the Board forum, or marked confidential. The Members can then decide for themselves the accuracy of the Runciman statements. I have spent two weeks arguing with the reform group about the cost of a general meeting outside the February Board meeting, and asking them to think of the cost to RAA. They were starting to agree. Now Runciman calls a full Board meeting at short notice. How can I argue the case with the reform group any longer? So now there will be two expensive meetings before Christmas. I will not be attending the meeting this Friday. First on a cost benefit basis. I can see no benefit to be achieved (face to face) for the high costs involved. And second on a bad blood basis. My attendance will only inflame Runciman further, and produce no benefit to the Association. I would also like to remind you that this meeting will incur an un budgeted expense, as such it needs to be formally put up for a vote before the meeting, and before any travel expenses are actioned. Regards John McKeown Ph Aus. Mob. +61 4 3872 8311 Ph Int Mob. +372 5771 1483

 

If this email is genuine it appears that John has been subjected to a barrage that he feels is offensive, unsavoury, potentially libelous and in need of possible legal advice and action.

 

Again, if this is true, while I am not aware of the content of the President's letter, it appears that there may be grounds for suspecting that John may have been subjected to treatment that is somewhat similar to that which has previously been reported by the elected member's representative Don Ramsey, Carol Richards & Ian Baker.

 

And I submit that it is reasonable to assume from John's note (if it is genuine) that part of what has initiated this is John's sterling efforts to communicate with concerned members through this forum and elsewhere, and his negotiations with Andys and the group that have been working with Andy for the betterment of members and the organisation.

 

If all this is true, the President should continue with his resignation and leave the Board immediately, and he should subsequently be held accountable for these actions in accordnce with the Constitution and whatever legislation applies ..... if all this is confirmed.

 

When will this terrible episode end for RAA & what more are members yet to learn?

 

This last year really has been an "Annus Horribilis" for the RAA, and the more we learn, it appears, the closer we get to the anus.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[cazza]

Runciman did resign and there is a board resolution passed some years ago to prevent members from withdrawing their resignation. He is now an ordinary member. If the board does not uphold their own rules they are corrupt and have to go IMHO.

 

Cazza

 

 

[turboplanner]

You know the irony here is that about 2 years ago Verbal blows were exchanged between myself and people like Captain and Turboplanner where the things I was posting were almost word for word what you are saying.To me at the time It was unthinkable that things were as bad as they were stating and I thought they and some of the other contributers were delusional. However over time they and others have drip fed details that time and time again have checked out. I still from time to time have problems with the emotivness that is brought to bear in these debates and would prefer that they are mereley statements of fact that people can check for themselves but to be honest forums without emotion is probably as likely as me winning lotto.

 

I believe it is unarguably the case that the current circumstances are as bad as we have ever seen in RAAUS in the short time Ive been a member (approx 8 years) and under our democratic processes the only people who the membership can hold to account are the board. They can be held to account for their own failings, or their lack of oversight of the employees.

 

Furthermore the things that are wrong at present will take a concerted effort to put right, but before we do that we need to remove the reasons they went wrong in the first place.

 

I'd point you back to those connversations so you can see that I was indeed arguing as you are now, but all of the governing body hiostory was removed about a year ago (+/- 6 months) and the history that could show this is a recuring theme isnt on this site any longer

 

Im sure Captain and Turboplanneer will "Like" this email and can therefore attest to its accuracy that I was indeed their biggest opponent back then and yet I find myself firmly on the otherside of the fence now as a result of checks and tests of claims made where I can.

 

Andy

I meekly posted a "like" because it's true, and there were some other prominent members who put spokes in the wheel with fantasy posts about not having a dog (the board) and barking yourself.

 

At that time I pointed out the often fatal results when this happens in an Association, including I think the lovely lady, the club sweetheart who quietly refurnished her house with an eight dollars for me, two dollars for you approach to their fundraising.

 

The price of freedom really is eternal vigilance.

 

Brett the reason I'm posting this is that Ed Herring extensively used this forum along with a couple of others, got himself elected and that's pretty much the last we heard of him.

 

He runs a big risk of being seen as, rightly or wrongly, being seen as part of the problem.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

Hi Turbz: Yup had looked at the constitution and its seems enabling enough. However I still think the incorporations act is a bit light-weight as a basis for a national organisation with the responsibilities and legal liability associated with the risk and task. I'm not trying to guess the current governance/management arrangements of RAAus just trying to establish exactly what has gone wrong and why.

 

Just a couple of comments - when community based organisations, whether they be Incorporated under the Act, or as a Company Limited by Guarantee, take on large government contracts, almost without exception the role of a board takes second place. Contracts come with agreed and measurable performance expectations and strict compliance obligations subject to audit. These contracts are by necessity administered by professional staff who are answerable to the board but who are also required to deal direct with the bureaucracy. The problems start to appear when changes/additional components are added to the contract. These changes/additions are usually negotiated by professional staff directly with the government bureaucracy. Under these circumstances the pressure for staff to comply is intense and often they feel the pressure when a board enters the fray with perhaps a contrary view at a political or governance level. From my experience this requires a high level of confidence and trust between both board and staff - otherwise the board becomes a rubber stamp and staff, simply servants of the government.

 

When community based organistations agree to work with and for the government it is often the case that their original agenda and community focus becomes corrupted and professionalised. Small amounts of money can move their strategic thinking from their main game to some convenient political fix for whatever government is in power at the time. The budgets for these programs previously conducted by government via the public service runs into billions of dollars - the systems of compliance (including legal backup and support for government) are now well established and tested.

 

With regard to the constitution it seems to me that the section dealing with affiliation of like organisations e.g. recreational flying clubs, is totally underutilised both as a resource (source of recreational aviation intelligence) and as a means of board communication.

 

Cheers Pete

 

 

[turboplanner]

The organization structure is frequently clouded by the personalities of its inhabitants.

 

For example, you can have a completely wrong structure and constitution but if the key personality, the President or quite often Secretary is one of those lovable people of goodwill who work like a draught horse for the members, the organization can work well for many years in harmony.

 

On the other hand if there are egos, hidden ambitions, hidden agendas,or dishonesty even the correct structure model will fall apart over a period of months or years.

 

Life really is a bed of roses - you just have to watch out for the pricks.

 

If you let the paid officers do the day's work and interface with CASA (and remember you are not dealing with the Government, which is subject to Parliamentary debate in both houses, you are dealing with individuals who can make terrible decisions where you have no recourse (or they can be brilliant), then those people tend to naturally assume more and more decisions.

 

So if CASA came along and said "These rag and tube aircraft that are doing aerobatics and spins and beating up caravan parks, are really causing us grief, do you really need them, the employee could check the records, find the numbers had dwindled, find that they didn't even put on a display at Natfly and go back to CASA and say "No, looks like they've just about finished, so CASA, having consulted "RAA" could introduce a regulation phasing them out.

 

On the other hand, with the Members appointing representatives who reported back to the members with transparency, Ozzie and the entire K9 division of the rag brigade would be camped on CASA's doorstep.

 

So you can see the intricacies of the huge spread of interests can be more accurately catered for by the second structure, which is how an Incorporated Association is supposed to work.

 

The third version which you alluded to where there is a Committee of Management or in the ego-ridden organizations Board of Management, caters to the egos and can lead to members being kept in the dark by a lucky few. You would have seen some Clubs where officials get helicopter rides, trips to the gold coast, invitations to Board Room (genuine) discussions. I won't say what that can lead to.

 

So life really is like a bed of roses, you just have to beware of the pricks.