A new Oz engine on the way?

[kgwilson]

Jab engines are considered cheap. My 3300 120hp just delivered cost 20k but that included everything except the battery to start it and the engine mount. It also has a tacho with hour meter, oil temp & pressure & CHT gauges & sensors. EGT was the only optional extra. Rotax 912s are good but way overpriced by the time all the extras are costed in to the installation.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Thank you Moderators for moving the posts from the ICP thread to A new Oz engine on the way?

 

A good move!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Jab engines are considered cheap. .

Maybe relative of course but not sure anyone calls 20K cheap for an air cooled 4 cylinder engine

 

Anyway, best of luck to them, they put their money where their mouths were..

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Jab engines are considered cheap. ..

Thats exactly what Rod Stiff said at the forum he put on. His words were "you get what you pay for". So dont complain when the fan stops prematurely. Im flying a Rotax in a Sportstar at the moment and it purrs along. "Burping" it before the first start of the day still wigs me out a bit....lol

Scotty

 

 

[bexrbetter]

His words were "you get what you pay for". So dont complain when the fan stops prematurely.

Can't be serious?

 

I couldn't give a hoot what price mine come out at, there's no way I'm suffering the responsibility of the death or injury of a person without doing everything humanly possible to avoid it.

 

There's cheaply made and then there's cheaply made, I will not confuse the 2.

 

 

[Bubbleboy]

Can't be serious?I couldn't give a hoot what price mine come out at, there's no way I'm suffering the responsibility of the death or injury of a person without doing everything humanly possible to avoid it.

 

There's cheaply made and then there's cheaply made, I will not confuse the 2.

Rod said the first part I highlighted, I said the second.

 

 

[kgwilson]

Maybe relative of course but not sure anyone calls 20K cheap for an air cooled 4 cylinder engineAnyway, best of luck to them, they put their money where their mouths were..

Its 6 cylinders not 4. I still made my decision to purchase it after 3 years of Jab engine knockers on this forum, preferring to take the advice and experience of many real people who own and use these engines.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Its 6 cylinders not 4. .

For how long?

 

Sorry

 

 

[AVOCET]

For how long?So what your saying is that this new engines going to work and stay working straight out of the box , I wonder if you'll have to eat your words (for how long?)in a couple of years or so ,

Good luck &cheers

 

 

[bexrbetter]

So what your saying is that this new engines going to work and stay working straight out of the box , I wonder if you'll have to eat your words (for how long?)in a couple of years or so ,

Did you miss the laffing face by chance? It was a joke.

 

But fair question anyway - I am slowly gathering components and intend for 25 engines to be both bench tested to death and appointed to various flyers for testing in various configurations.

 

I won't get into Jab engines other than to say I am looking heavily at cylinder head solutions for them.

 

 

[AVOCET]

Did you miss the laffing face by chance? It was a joke.But fair question anyway - I am slowly gathering components and intend for 25 engines to be both bench tested to death and appointed to various flyers for testing in various configurations.

 

I won't get into Jab engines other than to say I am looking heavily at cylinder head solutions for them.

Yes did miss the smile , I wasn't trying to be sarcastic , just keeping it real .ive had 1500 hrs on jaby engines since 1996 ( and no real issues ) although I'm Probly a bit bias , I built the first patterns for the original jaby engine ,( gee that brings back memories )

 

Anyway,

 

I think what your doing is absolutely great ,

 

And if your looking for any help , testing , flying , installations , ect . I'm interested in engine options for further development for the Avocet & I think it's important to support Australian endevour ,( just got a set of EQ headsets , go Aussie go )

 

My be we could talk ?

 

Cheers mike

 

 

[rankamateur]

Just a quick question, how is it that a new ozzie engine is developed from the peoples republic, doesn't that make it another chinese engine, just like every other Chonda. You get what you pay for.

 

 

[seb7701]

how is it that a new ozzie engine is developed from the peoples republic, doesn't that make it another chinese engine?

Spoken like a true ozzie bloody sceptic! Chinese engine? Not in my view - Oz designed/owned makes it an Oz engine to me, as opposed to being Chinese owned/designed. I would think they can produce to whatever specs are required when someone is paying them to do so.

 

The reason for Chinese manufacturing doesn't bare explanation and you never know - might even only be temporary.

 

If the engine is produced to the correct specifications, it would be a carefully considered case as to how much $$ I would sacrifice just for the sake of buying Australian manufactured. Like most, I buy locally where I can, but have my financial limits like everyone, where the line must be drawn and I sure as hell won't be choosing Aust made over reliability.

 

I for one am fascinated and delighted to hear of this endeavour and will not be casting any criticisms until I have miraculously designed and built an engine for consideration too!

 

 

[rankamateur]

They produce to your specs right up to the point you take your eye off them and trust them to keep doing it. The most important specs over looked in most chinese copy-facture is the metallurgy.

 

 

[rankamateur]

A lot of genuine australian souveneirs have a folded tag which reads Australian ..... designed, Made .....in China. when folded and sewn in the visible side reads Australian made, the hidden side reads Designed in China, they aren't pulling the synthetic wool over anyones eyes are they, doesn't matter anyway, half of them probrably get re-exported by wealthy asian tourist when they return home.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Spoken like a true ozzie bloody sceptic! Chinese engine? Not in my view - Oz designed/owned makes it an Oz engine to me, as opposed to being Chinese owned/designed. I would think they can produce to whatever specs are required when someone is paying them to do so.

Having had some experience in this field, be very careful and check out their Q.A. systems for 'Traceability' , that is, records to PROVE that they haven't deviated from your specifications. All it takes is for them to use a slight lower grade of material and you're buggered.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

It's Aussie not Ozzie

 

 

[facthunter]

QA (lack of) on the third large order put a mate of mine's engineering business on the rocks. Finito! had to make up the order at his cost in his own workshop , with no extra cost offset available. If some things were as easy as they first appear everyone would be doing it. China's costs are rising. They are farming some of their orders out to other even cheaper countries.. IF your motor is a good thing you will find copies of it appearing at half your price soon. ( Just like Yamaha and Honda). Nev

 

 

[rankamateur]

It's Aussie not Ozzie

Sorry Ozzie, correction duely noted, sorry for any offence.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

QA (lack of) on the third large order put a mate of mine's engineering business on the rocks. Finito! had to make up the order at his cost in his own workshop , with no extra cost offset available. If some things were as easy as they first appear everyone would be doing it. China's costs are rising. They are farming some of their orders out to other even cheaper countries.. IF your motor is a good thing you will find copies of it appearing at half your price soon. ( Just like Yamaha and Honda). Nev

I think some folks are missing the point a little bit here. Bex isn't getting the Chinese to make his engines. As I understand it from what he's revealed here and on another forum the only original items that the Chinese are making is a couple of castings, and I think other than that Bex says he's buying standard pistons, rods, cranks, heads, valves etc from major manufacturers like Suzuki, Honda or Toyota. Those companies sell their parts very cheap in China, because everything is very cheap there. Then Bex is using those castings and parts to build the engines in his own factory. Sounds like a clever concept to me and fully protected from the usual copying risks that FH outlines here. Of course the concept only works for people who live there.

 

I'm cheering him on anyway.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The supply streams of pistons etc. are complex, don't necessarily come from Japan, and are often sourced from third world countries by independent aftermarket retailers. This is known as the "grey" market. Many people in many Countries can make a "Honda" piston. Manufacturing increasingly is being disengaged from marketing.

 

That having been said, Japanese marketing policy is to sell to the "ability to pay" of the market, and that is what has made them so successful in third world Countries, but us rich offset that by paying top dollar.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

The supply streams of pistons etc. are complex, don't necessarily come from Japan, and are often sourced from third world countries by independent aftermarket retailers. This is known as the "grey" market. Many people in many Countries can make a "Honda" piston. Manufacturing increasingly is being disengaged from marketing.That having been said, Japanese marketing policy is to sell to the "ability to pay" of the market, and that is what has made them so successful in third world Countries, but us rich offset that by paying top dollar.

I'm sure that's right but as far as I understand it Bex isn't planning to buy from aftermarket retailers. I'm pretty sure he said he's buying from the company distributors themselves, in which case they're not aftermarket parts they're genuine parts and that has the advantage of using the manufacturers' own QA system.

 

Also from what he's said Bex has a fair bit of clout over there in terms of being able to buy where most people probably couldn't due to his family connections. And that's probably far more beneficial in culture-conscious places like China than it would be here, for example.

 

All that aside, it's probably worth noting that even though Global's, Cheap as, Repco or whoever might be selling aftermarket parts for half the cost of Dealers' genuine pistons, rods, cranks and so on, you don't see cars lining the side of the roads with broken engines. I know they're not working as hard as an aero engine but my point is that even aftermarket parts seem to make acceptable replacements so if an engine did end up being developed and tested around them it would still be a great step toward cheaper engines I would think.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

They produce to your specs right up to the point you take your eye off them and trust them to keep doing it. The most important specs over looked in most chinese copy-facture is the metallurgy.

Does the fact that Rolls Royce, Boeing, Cessna to name a few aeros let alone Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Audi, Benz etc manufacturer here not suggest that you might not be quite up to speed with China? I bought my brand new Mazda 6 in 2005 made 100% in China and it hasn't had a single fault in 220,000kms on Chinese freeways at 140kmh or over bad Chinese mountain backroads and almost always 4 adults up (and a chicken ).

 

As for management, I have lived here for 10 years and it's MY FACTORY. It's also my design, my QA and my QC. I have complete control over the lot.

 

I'm not trying to kid anyone or hide anything, I am making them in China to be competitive on the world market but the project is employing Australians, 6 to this point, and the bulk of profits (100% from Chinese investment btw) are going to Oz and I am very proud to call the project Australian.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So will the bexmetter fit in a 912 cowling?

 

 

[rankamateur]

My 1998, 2003, 2008 and 2009 Toyota's all made in Japan, thanks very much, just the way we like them.