geoffreywh Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Wow, now I see the configuration, so cross section-wise, it's going to be "inverted T" sort of. How daring . It looks terrific , inlet and exhaust are very easily planned and so unobtrusive. rocker lube thru' the rocker shaft/s ? ....Symmetrical valve timing too? I've seen that work 20/50/50/20....Dry sump?... Where's the material to take the head bolts? Are you going to have through bolts? ( not a serious question)...sorry for all the questions.. . Congratulations, I hope it's all you design it to be....I'd love to change out my 0-200 for something that actually makes some power...............Another question, looking at your first drawing why does the l/h and r/h "crankcase" not follow the shape of each crankshaft more closely? If the stroke is about 40mm? then i would expect the crank throw and clearance to be no more than 250mm in the vertical plane..Your drawing seems to show it to be bigger than this ( or am I looking at it wrong?) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Would you call that a side valve engine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtfm Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Semper specto in clara parte vitae Hi, If it's what I THINK it means, its a VERY "free" translation. Nice. DuncanTop of Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentreau Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I know, but if you reverse translate it with Google, it says what I want it to say :) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 inlet and exhaust are very easily planned and so unobtrusive. rocker lube thru' the rocker shaft/s ? ....Symmetrical valve timing too? Yes, you're seeing the general outlay there ok, that's only a prior art sample by the way and not my actual design but tells the general story. Cam timing and the whole head are simply brand new "off the shelf" heads made in the millions for a historically very reliable engine and that's part of the point of the project, later down the track the engine will be easy and cheap to maintain or repair by anyone with parts available world wide down at your local car parts shops. Dry sump?... Yes, dry sump. Another question, looking at your first drawing why does the l/h and r/h "crankcase" not follow the shape of each crankshaft more closely? Because you are looking at the engine mount end with wide flanges, the other 90% of the engine on the other side of the flanges does follow the crankshaft quite tightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 How are you linking the crankshafts? Gears like a Junkers Jumo? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 How are you linking the crankshafts? Gears like a Junkers Jumo? Nev Let me point out clearly that this is a composite prior art drawing for sampling only and used to suggest the design and not the actual design or to scale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I did a bit of a search on youtube and the Junkers Jumo seems to be the closest to what you have drawn But with a head planted on the centreline. Looks unique. The Jumo was a very successful engine....Will the cranks rotate in opposite directions? No, too difficult...... I answer my own question. Sorry if I ramble on, I do like a new good design, old world flat fours and sixes are a bit boring....As for a name? How about Wun Tin Lung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I did a bit of a search on youtube and the Junkers Jumo seems to be the closest to what you have drawn But with a head planted on the centreline. Looks unique. The Jumo was a very successful engine....Will the cranks rotate in opposite directions? No, too difficult...... I answer my own question. Sorry if I ramble on, I do like a new good design, old world flat fours and sixes are a bit boring....As for a name? How about Wun Tin Lung If you were very optimistic, you would call it: Semper specto in clara parte vitae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Turbo you need to get yourself a second hand RVR or Serdi machine .they make that kind of work so much easier there would be a few around with all the engine reco shops closing down. Merv Wagott built a beautiful twin overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder head for the Holden grey motor in the 1960's which raised output from 65 bhp to around 160 bhp and one got over 200 bhp on the dyno. Kaz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I know, but if you reverse translate it with Google, it says what I want it to. C'est ma chansons philosophie Française. Comment ça va? Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Zut alors Kaz. You had me thinking my French must be crap. I thought you said "this is my French philosophy song. How ya going?" But that would be nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 I did a bit of a search on youtube and the Junkers Jumo seems to be the closest to what you have drawn But with a head planted on the centreline. Looks unique. Yes but of course like a few others, the Junkers was a 2 stroke. 4 stroke OP engines are very rare in history having no real place or merit in any vehicle until recently when RPM has moved sufficiently high enough to make this layout worth the effort. ..As for a name? How about Wun Tin Lung Looking at the layout I would have thought that would be "Tu Tin Lung"!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Not until Australia produces another Phil Irving, who was motor cycling's equivalent of a Sinatra or Presley - they just don't come along in every generation... I enjoyed Phil's regular "Rich Mixture" column in Revs Motorcyle News. One reason I built up a large collection of those exciting magazines. Until the bloody white ants found them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Merv Wagott built a beautiful twin overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder head for the Holden grey motor in the 1960's which raised output from 65 bhp to around 160 bhp and one got over 200 bhp on the dyno.Kaz He did ,also a lot of camshaft pioneering work.with his company Waggott Engineering which was I think carried on by his son Peter and moved to Alstonville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 He did ,also a lot of camshaft pioneering work.with his company Waggott Engineering which was I think carried on by his son Peter and moved to Alstonville. And there is relevance in the discussion because he died in a light aircraft accident nearly 30 years ago when the front locking canopy on his Busby Mustang opened in flight. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozbear Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 And there is relevance in the discussion because he died in a light aircraft accident nearly 30 years ago when the front locking canopy on his Busby Mustang opened in flight.Kaz Its a shame to lose so many great minds in accidents maybe more thought for ballistic parachute systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 And there is relevance in the discussion because he died in a light aircraft accident Thousands have died in plane accidents so I guess it's going to be a bloody long thread isn't it. .... or we could talk about engines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damkia Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Let me point out clearly that this is a composite prior art drawing for sampling only and used to suggest the design and not the actual design or to scale...[ATTACH=full]22546[/ATTACH] I would have thought you could get away with a simple porting solution (exhaust+/- inlet), rather than go to the trouble of using an OHC head with it's now very awkward shaped combustion chamber... I think you will find that having a center of force from ignition at a significant distance off the line of the pistons themselves is going to cause a few issues, mainly the flame front propagation from ignition causing piston slap (unequal displacement of the upper and lower edges of the piston) leading to galling of the pistons/cyls. The actual bottom of the piston is going to be quite a distance away from the initial ignition and will probably not feel as much of the force of the flame front (cooled by distance and time). One other issue will be a significantly hotter side of the piston/cylinder with all the thermal stress of the OHC head and exhaust concentrated to one side (the old "flat head" problem of cooling the exhaust area). My 2 cents worth for discussion.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I would have thought you could get away with a simple porting solution (exhaust+/- inlet), rather than go to the trouble of using an OHC head with it's now very awkward shaped combustion chamber...I think you will find that having a center of force from ignition at a significant distance off the line of the pistons themselves is going to cause a few issues, mainly the flame front propagation from ignition causing piston slap (unequal displacement of the upper and lower edges of the piston) leading to galling of the pistons/cyls. The actual bottom of the piston is going to be quite a distance away from the initial ignition and will probably not feel as much of the force of the flame front (cooled by distance and time). One other issue will be a significantly hotter side of the piston/cylinder with all the thermal stress of the OHC head and exhaust concentrated to one side (the old "flat head" problem of cooling the exhaust area). My 2 cents worth for discussion.... A bit of (constructive) criticism here: I hope that this won't be a "back to the drawing board" situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 The actual bottom of the piston is going to be quite a distance away from the initial ignition and will probably not feel as much of the force of the flame front (cooled by distance and time). One other issue will be a significantly hotter side of the piston/cylinder with all the thermal stress of the OHC head and exhaust concentrated to one side (the old "flat head" problem of cooling the exhaust area). My 2 cents worth for discussion.... .... Which might have some significance if I didn't have spark plugs both sides of each cylinder. The whole point is the heads are simply brand new and economical "off the shelf" heads made in the millions for a historically very reliable engine and that's part of the point of the project, later down the track the engine will be easy and cheap to maintain or repair by anyone with parts available world wide down at your local car parts shops. Not only that but more good news, by using these heads, they also have self contained ignition system having a standard distributor bolted into and running off the camshaft and igniting the cylinder head's plugs while a seperate ignition system runs the other plugs, ie; redundent ignition systems at the cheapest cost and simplest method and totally maintainable by the homebuilder. No more being at the mercy of manufacturers with bespoke parts and systems that they take your first born child to pay for. $6000 + parts to rebuild a Jabiru and I have seen $20,000 + parts for Lycoming, what the hell??? Anarchy I say!! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 well.........if we're heading down a retro track, bring back the sleeve valve!! I've often wondered if modern metalurgy, machining and lubrication could make one viable? Perhaps a ceramic cylinder........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 well.........if we're heading down a retro track, bring back the sleeve valve!!. Not sure if serious but I for one consider that a SOHC is a radical revolution in flying circles 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Sleeve valves. My grandad bought a Willys Knight in 1924. Amazing torque, very quiet. I believe it is still running in the Port Macquarie area. I loved the Hawker Sea Fury; great sound, but oil consumption measured in gallons per hour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 OK, a friend of mine flew them (Sea Furies) in Korea. Don't recall the real high oil use figure. IN very cold conditions the little rods that moved the 2 sleeves would break because the oil had congealed Bristol freighters were flying out of Essendon for years and plenty of those pilots are known to me also. They are quite noisy but as far as I know the Bristol sleeve valves worked OK. Plenty of "normal" valve radials use a lot of oil. The P&W s could get through a bit and one plane I flew had a large oil tank in the cabin to enable oil to be transferred in flight, to any of the engines. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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