Kyle Communications Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Actually x-wind capabilities of the Foxbat are one of the best I have seen. The earlier models had a 17 knot demonstrated capability. Personally, I tested 27 knots and bent the nose leg trying to land beating an unexpected hailstorm. Paid for the nose leg out of my own pocket as the insurance will not cover damage caused by exceeding the published aircraft limitations.The newer models have reduced their rudder area and I suspect won't have the absolute limits I have seen achieved. However I think 12-15 Kts capability is mor than adequate for most folks. The Savannah is the easiest to fly by far I think. Its crosswind component is listed as 27 knots from memory 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
503 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 As far as training, You should be able to go solo in a powered parachute in 2 - 5 hrs .You can't beat that for simple safe flying. Pick it up for around 10k and fly just add fuel oh,and spark plugs now and again that's about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Trained in a Gazelle...very easy to fly...found it a bit cramped for my long legs. Now own a Foxbat...yokes and centre throttle....heaps more room and just as easy to fly, if not easier. Did a few hours in a jab 230...couldn't really get with it........had to really be on the ball with final speed otherwise it would float forever..........didn't like the centre stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The Foxbat is a very easy to fly aircraft. Is it Bowlooks,. . .! It might be if you are already conversant with medium / high performance flying machines of differing types, BUT what about getting the prospective student appliance operator to get the airspeed right on the downwind leg ? If you don't get the Airspeed and Attitude AND the engine revs AND. . . the trim set correctly,. . . . then you'll be too fast on final and it will all go pear shaped. Very slippery airframe. But an altogether very well sorted and pleasant aircraft to fly. (NB. When you get the student to understand this ! ) It's OK for us old farts to use sideslips to get it right at the last minute, but I would never agree that it is an "Easy" aircraft to fly, for this, you need an aeroplane like a Marque One X'Air, or Cyclone AX3, . . . . I've no doubt there are other machines available in Australia which fit the same mould, . . . ie, I've never flown a "Drifter" nor have I ever seen one. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Skyfox Gazelle. A blind 5 year old could fly one....... They are also very boring to fly.Having said that, when I was a hangar rat I watched a first solo pilot wheel barrow one into the ground and keep pushing forward again and again until the (very strong, Bill Whitney designed) nose wheel folded and down she went...........................the mind boggles....... Speaking to a VERY experienced/renowned instructor a few years later I was rambling about how easy the Gazelle was to fly and he said something that I will never forget "that may be so but it will still kill you'' Some may think that's a bit morbid but he is right, the minute we start thinking we can just fluff along because the plane is so easy to fly and we've done it a million times and we know this and we know that, just tell yourself.........this plane could kill me in an instant if I don't respect it. My 2 cents..... Hiya David,. . . . Can I just ask that you alter the instructor's comments you highlighted slightly to,. . ." It MIGHT well STILL kill you. . . . . ." I have flown several types of stick and rudder controlled machines over my short career, and I have never found one yet that does NOT have this inherent ability, IF . . . . . . you ask it to do something for which it was not designed. . . .ie,. . .input a control request which causes the aircraft to depart from it's design envelope, ( as students CAN often, and quite innocently often do. . . .) Also, I must state that I have absolutely NO knowledge about the aircraft you mentioned either,. . . . but the theory seems to work with everything I've ever been priviledged to ride in. . . The only other comment I would leave is that I have NEVER ( Repeat as neccessary. . .) EVER been BORED,. . .whilst flying ANY aeroplane. I can imagine someone who owns a VANS RV7 being a little "Laid Back" if he flew a much less sophistcated type, but BORED ? ? ? ? ? mmmm, not me mate, I love to fly ANYTHING. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 Point taken. In fact the instructor probably said something more along those lines. I also agree I don't think I've ever been bored no matter what I am flying either, bad wording on my behalf. Thanks for the pointers :-)))) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 The Gazelle taught me to fly The Jabiru taught me to be a pilot The CTsw taught me experience 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gforce Posted June 27, 2013 Share Posted June 27, 2013 My Jabiru training was 15 years ago and it tough me I HATED the throttle position. I have not reached between my legs that often since I was 15 But, it did teach me speed management, Slipping and that 3 Nts makes alot of difference to a good landing and a go around ! 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guernsey Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 My Jabiru training was 15 years ago and it tough me I HATED the throttle position. I have not reached between my legs that often since I was 15 But, it did teach me speed management, Slipping and that 3 Nts makes alot of difference to a good landing and a go around ! Speed Management....very interesting.... what speed did you find was ideal when you were 15??? ( just wanted to compare notes ). . Alan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XP503 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 May I add, If you really want to have precise stick and rudder finesse...............Look no further than the Drifter.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru7252 Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 All she remembers is me yelling "faster! faster!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gforce Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Speed Management....very interesting.... what speed did you find was ideal when you were 15??? ( just wanted to compare notes ). .Alan. As I said.. That i learnt that there is a real need to get your touch town speed right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nong Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Robertson B1-RD is a strong challenger. One afternoon, I trained two pilots from scratch. No dual of course. They would just pull up every few minutes for further instructions. One of these pilots handled an engine failure the next morning, correctly swooping under the power line that was in his way. He died of natural causes after twenty years of hobby aviating. His mate is still going strong, with twenty three years accumulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Robertson B1-RD is a strong challenger. One afternoon, I trained two pilots from scratch. No dual of course. They would just pull up every few minutes for further instructions. One of these pilots handled an engine failure the next morning, correctly swooping under the power line that was in his way. He died of natural causes after twenty years of hobby aviating. His mate is still going strong, with twenty three years accumulated. There was a B1-RD for sale recently Nong. Problem with them was they could only really be flown in calm conditions. They were almost identical to the Frank Bailey designed Mustang that I flew a lot of hours in in 1982. The C150 has to be one of the most forgiving and strong aircarft to fly and my favourite Ab initio trainer. I have seen them stalled from 20' and slam onto the runway and still be flyable after inspection. Nothing in the RAA category would survive that. My favourite easy to fly RA Aus machines are the WB drifter and the Foxbat, but the Foxbat has a veeeerrry weak nose wheel, but beautiful to fly. I cant comment on the Gazelle as I have never had the privilege of flying one. In the tail wheel GA category my favourite is the Citabria 7GCBC followed by my Auster J1B, but neither of these are easy training aircraft, you have to use your feet aggressively if you want to stay on the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Robertson B1-RD is a strong challenger. One afternoon, I trained two pilots from scratch. No dual of course. They would just pull up every few minutes for further instructions. One of these pilots handled an engine failure the next morning, correctly swooping under the power line that was in his way. He died of natural causes after twenty years of hobby aviating. His mate is still going strong, with twenty three years accumulated. Geez Nong,. . . that reminds me of a lad being taught how to fly his Tiger Cub, which was a single seat biplane, with the uinstructor riding a motorbike alongside him as he flew along the runway at a disused airfield at around 12 feet agl ! ! The instructor had rigged a megaphone onto the bike !! The chappie had built the thing from a kit and had no idea how to fly it. So following several hours at the "Blackboard" and some dual in a 2 seat "Stick" GA aircraft, he finally got the hang of it. I don't think I'd ever want to teach someone like that unless the owner had a lot of hours already ! ! ! This was back in 1983 by the way. . . There was a B1-RD for sale recently Nong. Problem with them was they could only really be flown in calm conditions. They were almost identical to the Frank Bailey designed Mustang that I flew a lot of hours in in 1982.The C150 has to be one of the most forgiving and strong aircarft to fly and my favourite Ab initio trainer. I have seen them stalled from 20' and slam onto the runway and still be flyable after inspection. Nothing in the RAA category would survive that. My favourite easy to fly RA Aus machines are the WB drifter and the Foxbat, but the Foxbat has a veeeerrry weak nose wheel, but beautiful to fly. I cant comment on the Gazelle as I have never had the privilege of flying one. * * * In the tail wheel GA category my favourite is the Citabria 7GCBC followed by my Auster J1B, but neither of these are easy training aircraft, you have to use your feet aggressively if you want to stay on the runway. Hi David,. . . I believe that Cessna designed the "150" to withstand a static "Drop" from thirty feet ! ! ! I've seen some horrible things done to those airframes and they seem to keep on taking the punishment ! ! . . .But "Easy to Fly" isn't really a sensible description. . . . Easy to "LEARN IN" for the Ab Initio I agree. . . they DO forgive SOME things. . . ! Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 . . Easy to "LEARN IN" for the Ab Initio I agree. . . they DO forgive SOME things. . . ! Phil That is exactly what I meant. A great trainer because of control authority and what I call control resolution ... BUT sadly they have still killed a few students with instructors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Errr... from experience, with two largish passengers in the back seat, you can break off the rear tie-down ring on the C172 in an otherwise very nice (if a little nose-high) landing.Didn't even realise until the CFI rang me up the next day! Yes and that tail tie - down ring is mounted on the fuselage rear bulkhead, which if cracked can get quite expensive to replace !!................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Yes and that tail tied own ring is mounted on the fuselage rear bulkhead, which if cracked can get quite expensive to replace !!................Maj... Yep, have a look at a C172 next time you see one and you will probably notice the gravel rash on the tail tie down ring. A funny story about that tail ring ... Because I flew tail draggers a lot in my initial training and used to actively 'hold off' in my flare, my CFI said to me once " we are going to have to fit a tail wheel to that C172 just for you David ..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 For me it is the Sanannah, and if I was instructing I'd have a fleet of them....extremely user friendly come landing time regardless of any Xwinds........I have flown a Gazelle also and they are pretty easy, but not as forgiving as the Savvy. Lightwings not bad if you want to tame the taildragger and really learn to slip. Years ago I first learnt to fly in an Eipper MXL2, side by side out in the breeze with only a Hall airspeed indicator and altimeter hitting the ground before you did. The hall for those young blokes was a plastic tube with a plastic disc going up and down to show airspeed. For something so simple they were pretty consistent, and accurate, except when a bug got stuck in them. The MXL2 wasn't a bad flyer except as your flared above the runway she had a habit of sliding off the runway heading to one side...this taught rudder usage in a big way !!.....................Maj... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 And also ......................... the easiest plane to fly is the type were there's an instrucor sitting right next to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I have heard over time many aircraft being described as "landing them selves". They are usually low wing types with pronounced ground effect. The first I encountered was the Piper PA 28 Cherokee when it was released in the early 60's.. It is a reasonable plane but I never accept the idea of the plane just doing it OK by itself so I just felt it was just another "tin" aeroplane and put as much effort into the landings as I would in any other aircraft, which is a fair bit because you never know exactly what a plane is going to do, and you don't have a lot of margin for error in the landing phase. With the Gazelle, the biggest risk is an overspeed combined with a high "G" as when recovering from a SPIRAL as the centre of lift moves well back, subjecting the wing to a twisting force. ( nose down). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnm Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 that would make a good new thread, that FH - there are lots of instances of planes that have flown away by themselves - their landings would of no doubt been more spectacular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 One of the most notable was an Auster 2 seat archer that got away at Bankstown and took ages for someone to shoot it down. It is fairly hard to believe a tailwheel plane would keep straight on take off with no one in it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperplace Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 This might have been done before and it may be more appropriate to have a poll but I thought i'd throw the question out there:What are people's opinions on the easiest (powered) aircraft to learn to fly? GA or RA (or weight-shift or powered parachute etc.). I've only flown a few but to start things off my vote would be the Skyfox Gazelle. As i've heard on occasion "If you can't fly a Gazelle then you can't fly". What do others think? no-one seemsto have mentioned jabiru LSA, perhaps the most common trainer in Oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 no-one seemsto have mentioned jabiru LSA, perhaps the most common trainer in Oz. IMO that would be because a Jabiru LSA isn't the easiest aircraft to learn to fly. Not by a long way. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now