nickduncs84 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 So here I am. A 30 year old pencil pusher getting into the aviation thing. One problem I have is that I don't know the top of an engine from the bottom. What are my options for mechanical training? Is there a path from zero to L2 that makes sense for someone like me? Ie someone with a day job! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pylon500 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Is there a path from zero to L2 At the moment there isn't even a path to L1 (pilot maint). And you need to be born an L2 to get there...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 So here I am. A 30 year old pencil pusher getting into the aviation thing. One problem I have is that I don't know the top of an engine from the bottom. What are my options for mechanical training? Is there a path from zero to L2 that makes sense for someone like me? Ie someone with a day job! Get yourself a copy of AC43b, have a good read. Find out who your local L2's are, see if they are willing to allow you to learn from them while you help. Find Out who's building, help them, for experience. At the end of the day, you will need 2 L2's as referees, so working with some will certainly help. I don't know if there's any money in it, I like to do it to help fellow aviators out, but, usually when I need a condition report on my own aircraft, I am charged a small fortune, but to be fair theses guys are running training facilities, trying to make a living. Experience is important, and it will take some time to build that experience, you can learn the principles quite quickly, but it will take time to find out just how many ways those principles can be applied. The AC43 is available from RAA for under $50, good value for the data it contains. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 So here I am. A 30 year old pencil pusher getting into the aviation thing. One problem I have is that I don't know the top of an engine from the bottom... As well as following the advice above, get involved in maintaining your own mechanical things- from your wipper-snipper to your car. There are plenty of resources on the net to help. This way you might find (quite inexpensively) if you have an aptitude for the work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Nick, I gained a DoT (as it was at the time) Airworthiness Inspector's approval, plus minor repairs to fibreglass, and wood for gliders, mainly through a GFA course. Having grown up in a workshop and learned the proper use of tools and equipment helped, but as OK says, some people just do have an 'aptitude' for certain types of work and others don't. Just little things, like having the 'feel' for too much tension going into a bolt so you stop turning the spanner BEFORE it gets to yield point. I think SAA runs some 'builder's courses?' Nothing beats experience and watching people who know do things, asking them 'why is it done that way?' and understanding the answers can take you a long way. But a caveat there - you do need to actually understand what they say, not understand what you may think they say! Most people will be really helpful to someone who is obviously genuinely trying to get information, I've always found. And something that has always helped me - don't be afraid to ask 'dumb' questions, it's a hell of a lot cheaper and safer than making dumb mistakes because you didn't ask the question! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Get practical experience. Theory may get you a piece of paper, but you need the practical to understand what you are doing. Case in point, my wife came second in our ag college for mechanical engineering, she still hardly knows the difference between a spark plug and a carburettor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Nick, a damn useful source of a wide variety of information on 'general practice' is Ashkouti's: 'The Aircraft Mechanic's Pocket Manual'. It's a bit old now but a hell of a lot of it is still entirely relevant. I have a copy in electronic form, if you P.M. me I'm happy to send you a copy on a USB stick (it's 142 Mb as images). It's no use for fibeglass repairs, but if you're leaning to a Jab. then that's a whole subject you need to learn very carefully from someone who really knows the subject anyway - just because a Jab. looks like it's built like a surfboard (and in some respects it IS) you can't just go at repairs to the 'glass unless you seriously know what you're doing and have the correct resin, 'glass and knowledge of the techniques and the right equipment (soda blasting gear, preferably a vacuum bagging capability and a reasonable environmentally-controlled shed). Looking after a 'simple' aircraft is not rocket science, but it needs to be done correctly. You don't need a million hours of experience to take a spanner to something, but you DO need to know what it is that you need to do! If you can develop a 'working relationship' with someone who is a reliable, experienced mentor (an L2, pretty obviously), you'll pick things up by asking how and doing stuff yourself. FWIW - have you read Pursig's 'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance'? There's not much there about actual motorcycle maintenance and for some of it you need to have a good grounding in Platonic philosophy - but there's a bit about the psychological approach to either wanting to understand how 'mechanical' things work (and valuing that knowledge) or simply demanding that because you have spent the $$ on a top-spec device, it SHOULD work, dammit. Don't think that because you have a 'pencil-pusher' background, you can't understand mechanical things; I have a B.A. (most fundamentally useless Degree in existence) and am a Librarian by professional qualification, but I get a huge kick out of doing things 'mechanical' properly. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekliston Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Just don't start learning about aircraft engines on a dehavilland gypsy, top dead centre is at the bottom!! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ozzie Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Buy an old lawnmower, a manual and a rebuild kit. Not sure what state you live in but check out your TAFE colleges for courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Get an old diesel model aeroplane motor and try starting it, by flicking the prop. You will ruin ALL your fingers and will no longer be a "pencil pusher". You need to have a feeling for loads in structures and a good knowledge of materials and their properties. I've been mucking with this stuff since I was 10 and I am still learning. Some think it can be done one night a week for a year and they will then know what I now do (having done it forever). Of course there are a lot of other things you miss out learning about because there is a specialising element to all knowledge. You can know a lot about a little or a little about a lot. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Buy an old lawnmower, a manual and a rebuild kit.Not sure what state you live in but check out your TAFE colleges for courses. Don't buy an old lawnmower. I have one you can have for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickduncs84 Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 Thanks everyone. Some really good advice. I'm definitely not in any rush and can't imagine actually wanting to do any of the work without an L2 that I trust being involved. Even if I did want to, my wife would veto it! Really it's not about saving money or anything like that, just something I want to learn more about out of interest. Now I'm off to convince the mrs to let me buy a model airplane.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Aha, the old Taifun Hobby (?) motor? - vicious little buggers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I still have scars on my fingers from 25 years ago when I tried to reach through the prop of a model engine to adjust the needle valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planedriver Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Taipan is the name I think you were looking for Oscar. As Nev says, they can be lots of fun starting, especially when they have a small race prop. The backs of your fingers can wind up looking like the inside of a fishes gills, and you never need to waste your money buying a pair of nail clippers. You do wind up having a feeling for motors though, or should read as a result of them:yikes: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 My first was a FROG 150 diesel which cost close to a weeks wages. I didn't buy my lunches (kept the money) and sold newspapers out of a billycart I pushed about 4 miles on sundays. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloper Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Goodaye If you want free mechanical/fitting experience l have heaps of jobs for you. Remove and rebuild a small block chev for a 57 chev. Paint and put together a TX Gemini Coupe (its a rolling shell at the moment) Refit motor gearbox and all trim. Dismantle a TX Gemini parts car. Make a new wiring loom for a Grp3 Build a new decking and carport ( working with wood, yes there still wooden aircraft out there) Detail the Magnum for the Australian Grand Prix No wonder l havent been able to touch my plane at the moment. regards Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ...there are a lot of other things you miss out learning about because there is a specialising element to all knowledge. You can know a lot about a little or a little about a lot. Nev So true, Nev. Some people specialise so much they end up knowing everything there is to know about nothing much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 So true, Nev. Some people specialise so much they end up knowing everything there is to know about nothing much at all. Welcome to academia, where the only way to specialise is to ignore everything except your own narrow field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Buy an old car. Pull the engine and gearbox out. Recondition either or both. Or simply clean them up and put new gaskets/seals through them. Might even be able to sell it what you paid for it. Will also allow you to build up a tool box too. Best to learn on cars or motorbikes as the consequences of a stuff up are less dramatic............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Buy an old car. Pull the engine and gearbox out. Recondition either or both.Or simply clean them up and put new gaskets/seals through them. Might even be able to sell it what you paid for it. Will also allow you to build up a tool box too. Best to learn on cars or motorbikes as the consequences of a stuff up are less dramatic............... Could you get a weekend casual job with your local motor wrecker? That will teach you basic spanner work faster than anything else I can think of. After a couple of weekends at that, do what Downunder recommends; but first, look through the overhaul manuals at your local newsagent, and pick a make & model for which good how to do it instructions are in the manual. Start with an older model engine that has a carburettor and 2 valves per cylinder; modern engines have so many bells & whistles on them that it's a bit bewildering for a newbie. If there's a Tech. college course on DIY car maintenance, that would likely be a good place to start. That will get you a pretty fair basic introduction to engines - at least, liquid-cooled ones. Aircraft materials and hardware are quite a bit different to the sort of thing Bunnings etc sell; that's something to pick up after you get used to grease under the fingernails & basic mechanical principles. I started with model planes & lawnmowers, too. Overhauling something like a Briggs & Stratton fire pump motor will teach you quite a lot - and the pieces are not so heavy if you drop them on your toe . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 CT110 postie bike - not too expensive, parts are dirt cheap, and nice and simple mechanics to get you started. Haynes workshop manual gives you everything in pictures, and by the time you have finished it (presuming it actually runs and all the bits that came out went back in somewhere.....) you can possibly even make a profit. Or just use it as a cheap hack to get to work and back! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 CT110 postie bike - not too expensive, parts are dirt cheap, and nice and simple mechanics to get you started. Haynes workshop manual gives you everything in pictures, and by the time you have finished it (presuming it actually runs and all the bits that came out went back in somewhere.....) you can possibly even make a profit. Or just use it as a cheap hack to get to work and back! All the bits went back? ALL the bits? C'mon now, NOBODY gets all the bits back.... 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark11 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 So true, Nev. Some people specialise so much they end up knowing everything there is to know about nothing much at all. True for the corporate ladder too. The higher you go, the less you need to know. When you get to the top you only need to know how to sign your name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 They make a virtue of ignorance at the top. No preconceptions. Those who are part of the problem can't be part of the solution etc. Funny how those who were never listened to can be part of an outcome. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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