CASA 292/14 - Conditions and direction about Jabiru engines

[Oscar]

Oscar, i will chase down again but it was quite clear that with a new CAE core, it could now be classed as new engine make.It was advised to alter aircraft data in records being no longer Jabiru powered. That was VH regd.

The eminent CASA dept indicated that as only ancillary parts were kept and with the supplementary datalate issued by CAE

 

This was the preceeding discussion to getting email recently circulated confirming separation of new and new core CAE engines from limitations imposed

 

Probably a good question for tech man in RAA

Aha - not being a VH-reg owner, I don't get the CASA stuff. It makes sense from the POV of the amount of changes actually in a CAMit core rebuild, I agree.

 

 

[coljones]

Perhaps a recap on Certified, Certificated (and Nons) and their eligibility to overfly "Built-Up Areas", "Populated Areas" and into "Controlled Airspace".

 

Anyone?

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Bruce wrote:

 

"Ryan, this topic is worth a thread of its own.

 

My opinion is that it would be a disgraceful thing to deny a license to anybody with a condition like yours.

 

The only sane prohibition should be for conditions which would cause a sudden ( less than a flight time) loss of capacity."

 

Even that is somewhat ridiculous. We don't prevent people from going to Nepal to climb Mount Everest a provably dangerous activity. The PPL medical should be the same as the RAAus one - a valid State car drivers' licence. Your probability of damaging an innocent third party due to sudden incapacitation is vastly greater in a car than in a small aircraft. Passengers can take their chances as they do in RAAus. The weight of the aircraft isn't going to change the outcome for the passenger(s). *Maybe* there is a case for only one passenger and a warning placard for passengers along the lines of " if you can't land this thing, think carefully before leaving the ground in it".

 

In any case the honest DAMEs will tell you that just because they just passed you on a PPL medical, that you won't drop dead before getting to the reception desk on the way out.

 

 

[facthunter]

AS a predictor of sudden death, the medical by CASA could well be considered a failure. Some of the tests required come with a mortality component in themselves. The Stress ECG (Bruce's Protocol) with ultrasound examination at the same time is a good way of checking heart function, at the time. Might be more appropriate to an athlete in some ways, though a pilot's heart rate goes very high in stress situations. Nev

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

AS a predictor of sudden death, the medical by CASA could well be considered a failure. Some of the tests required come with a mortality component in themselves. The Stress ECG (Bruce's Protocol) with ultrasound examination at the same time is a good way of checking heart function, at the time. Might be more appropriate to an athlete in some ways, though a pilot's heart rate goes very high in stress situations. Nev

Unless it is a CPL or ATPL medical and you have no other indications, an ECG (stress or otherwise) isn't required for a Class 2 (PPL) medical unless you fly aerobatics. Or at least that was the situation last time I asked.

 

How about a new thread on this topic, mods?

 

Our US friends are mounting a campaign to get rid of their Class 3 (PPL) medical for the majority of private pilots who fly the lower performance aircraft. From what I've seen there is absolutely NO evidence that the accident rate is lowered by having the medical exam and some evidence that it actually raises the risk (I've got a medical, I MUST be OK to fly today, even though I don't feel so good).

 

 

[turboplanner]

To start a new thread, click on forums, click on the subject you choose, click on "start new thread" to the right of screen

 

 

[frank marriott]

Perhaps a recap on Certified, Certificated (and Nons) and their eligibility to overfly "Built-Up Areas", "Populated Areas" and into "Controlled Airspace".Anyone?

And call it the Hood hypotheticals

 

 

[dazza 38]

Get KTM to build your engines. The only engine manufacture to win DAKAR for a very long time. Oh hang on, they are Austrian like Rotax, get Rotax to build your engines , they are Austrian as well. Do people see a common denominator here ?

 

 

[skeptic36]

Get KTM to build your engines. The only engine manufacture to win DAKAR for a very long time. Oh hang on, they are Austrian like Rotax, get Rotax to build your engines , they are Austrian as well. Do people see a common denominator here ?

I know, I know Things that cost a lot:ban me please:

 

 

[dazza 38]

I know, I know Things that cost a lot:ban me please:

Well Bombardier Canada owns KTM but the quality engines are made in Austria, not like the Bundaberg hand grenades made here.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

There's something special about today but I can't quite put my finger on it, Austria day? Nah, it'll come to me eventually.....

 

 

[dazza 38]

There's something special about today but I can't quite put my finger on it, Austria day? Nah, it'll come to me eventually.....

Spoken like a true boat anchor driver.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Well Bombardier Canada owns KTM but the quality engines are made in Austria, not like the Bundaberg hand grenades made here.

Well not really, KTM is owned by you guess it, KTM motorcycles. They also own Husaberg. Some Indian outfit owns 14.5 % of sone back water KTM company hence the asians making the el cheapo KTM 390. I personally wouldn't TOUCH one, way too gutless for me. I am used too 150 HP.

Anyway, back to aircraft engines.

 

 

[gandalph]

not like the Bundaberg hand grenades made here.

Like Bob Hudson sang in the Newcastle song: "don't you ever let a chance go by" You keep on sticking the boot in Daz if it makes you feel good. It would be good nice not to lump all the Bundy manufactures under the one disparaging label. But that's probably, asking way too much. FFS!

 

 

[jetjr]

Spoken like a true boat anchor driver.

Speaking of w anchors, Dazz is back full of usual informative helpful posts

 

 

[David Isaac]

If you dumb buggas just ignored his stirring comments, no one would notice ..... Duh.

 

 

[Oscar]

He probably needs a bit of post-holidays sharpening up, he missed a golden opportunity to inform Turbs that the correct spelling of 'Senior Council' is 'Senior Counsel' - a bit of a slip from Turbs really, given his depth of knowledge of legal matters. (Though I somehow find it strange that any SC would not know how to pronounce 'hyperbole', they don't hand out SC-ships with a jumbo-pack of McTuckey Flied. I can see the 'uncouth brute' description though, I've watched Tom Hughes in action in Court, not just in his driveway with a cricket-bat.)

 

 

[frank marriott]

If you dumb buggas just ignored his stirring comments, no one would notice ..... Duh.

Like when he topped unhelpful tags [18] in a short time and spat the dummy and was leaving. Once the tags were revoved he is back with the "SOS", not that I get them anyway.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Just let them slide ... you give them a life of their own when you respond.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Well Bombardier Canada owns KTM but the quality engines are made in Austria, not like the Bundaberg hand grenades made here.

Now there's a very explosive comment.

Alan.

 

 

[biggles5128]

I apologise if this has already been written but here we go...

 

As a J230 owner I certainly have a vested interest in the restrictions imposed by CASA but more importantly the reliability of my engine. It seems without argument that some engines will reach TBO however ther is also evidence that others will not if you can interpret the statistics correctly.

 

I believe that CASA should have taken a different approach with the latest instrument. It is my opinion that instead of imposing the current restrictions the authority should have forced the company to revise the top end overhaul to 500 hours and the major to 1000 hrs. This being said it will be an extra cost to owners and businesses however it is a cost that can be calculated instead of the current one which basically amounts to putting a lot out of business. Again it is my belief that if this was done the reliability would improve as the maintainer would literally getting a look inside the engine.

 

I realise that this may not solve all the failures but then again what engine is %100 fail proof.

 

Potential buyers could then factor this into the equation, owners and schools using the aircraft would not have these restrictions placed upon them that will not do anything to solve the problem only wipe thousands of their investment.

 

Again this is only my humble view on how CASA could have handled this thing.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Probably the most productive thing said in 18 pages.

 

 

[SDQDI]

Probably the most productive thing said in 18 pages.

Actually you could add all the other pages of jab vs CASA chat to that total.

Biggles it's good to see someone at last come up with a 'suggestion' instead of the OLD 'jabs are all death traps' and 'CASA need to keep their noses out of jabs business' arguments.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Biggles, what you said is intuitively correct but actually wrong. While it "stands to reason" that the shorter the maintenance interval, the higher the reliability, this is not so.

 

Have a look at all the Mike Busch stuff on this. You will find for example that he advises to look into the cylinders much more often than 500 hours, but to do it with a borescope, not by dismantling the engine. But there is a lot more to the story...

 

 

[jetboy]

Most operators are already factoring for a top @ 500 and a new core @ 1000 hrs anyway. These random failures dont seem to be wear related so whats the point in requiring a wear check early? and flying schools - if any left - would have to be tearing engines out every 10 months or so for nothing. CASA have no idea what the cause is or which engines or operating conditions have these failures. The instrument was put in place to allow limited operation to continue while they study the matter. When the cause and cure is known, we will be told the corrective action. It might mean certain parts to be replace, or indeed more frequent or extensive overhauls. I estimate a top overhaul would cost me $5,000 for my 2200 and double that for a full. It is solid lifter running 100/130 Avgas. I dont think doing overhauls twice as frequently will remove the likelihood of flywheel bolts, thrubolts or cylinder cracking. If these things are breaking, they often break before 200 hrs. If they dont break by then, they likely last the distance without trouble. So to avoid doubt, one could do an inspection every 180 hrs. Or follow the latest Jabiru inspection process. If you feel the J230 will be better by doing it then thats your choice.

 

My view is CASA should have suspended the type certificates for the engine. I'm in NZ so not directly affected by the ruling - thats just my idea of how it 'should' have been acted on. Its not over until the fat lady sings.