kasper Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Have any of you actually read the Marriage Act that is Australian law? The only reference to the gender of the participants comes in the Section that deals with definition of terms used in the Act. Here is the definition of "marriage" as it appears in the Act: marriage means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life. For the rest of the Act, the term used to describe any or both parties is "person/s".The definition of "marriage" was only added to the Act in 2004 (Act No 126 of 2004). All that has to be done to include "same sex" unions under this Act is to replace the words "a man and a woman" with the words "two persons". I also find it interesting that a law of the Commonwealth made using the powers granted to the Commonwealth by the Australian Constitution says that marriage is "for life", but another Act, the Family Law Act allows the breaking of this law by permitting divorce. Old Man Emu Oh the irony In 1991 in Tasmania of all places I was arguing at the Uni law School in Family Law lectures and tutorials that the marriage act did not prevent same sex marriage nor did the constitution ... you can guess how popular I was ... but they couldn't actually point out where I was wrong Roll forward and John Howard managed to hear that what I was spouting might be correct so they pushed through an amendment to the marriage act make marriage opposite sex only ... strangely that decision did not require a reference to the Australian public as a whole, but it seems Howards political descendants take a whole different approach in undoing what they did :-( Roll forward a bit more and an upstart Territory in the form of the ACT try to - excuse the pun - force equal marriage in though the back door and the High Court then does the only possible thing it can and slaps down the laws because Territory laws are in total subject to Federal oversight as they derive all power from the Federal - not like States here where they have powers and rights in their own right BUT also go on to make it clear the constitution allows for equal marriage and its up to the Fed parliament to amend the marriage act. Roll on a few more years and we have the mess we have. Seems a shame I didn't actually have anyone I wanted to marry in 1991 or I could have really made the 6 o'clock news. As is stands I married my husband in the UK last year before returning to OZ dragging him with me and we are waiting for the Australian Government to sort out the laws to align with what really does appear to be a majority view of the population and allow the laws here to recognize our marriage. And Yenn ... if people of a religious bent (or non-religious bent) have a real objection to the use of the term marriage in relation to what the government allows as a recognised and approved union I am prepared to explore the option to downgrade ALL existing marriages in Australian and make them all Civil Partnerships - you see if what gay and lesbian people have at the moment is enough it really should be enough for everyone - yeah? Strange thing about equality - you really cannot have too much of it. 1 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Have any of you actually read the Marriage Act that is Australian law? The only reference to the gender of the participants comes in the Section that deals with definition of terms used in the Act. Here is the definition of "marriage" as it appears in the Act: marriage means the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life. For the rest of the Act, the term used to describe any or both parties is "person/s".The definition of "marriage" was only added to the Act in 2004 (Act No 126 of 2004). All that has to be done to include "same sex" unions under this Act is to replace the words "a man and a woman" with the words "two persons". I also find it interesting that a law of the Commonwealth made using the powers granted to the Commonwealth by the Australian Constitution says that marriage is "for life", but another Act, the Family Law Act allows the breaking of this law by permitting divorce. Old Man Emu Oh the irony In 1991 in Tasmania of all places I was arguing at the Uni law School in Family Law lectures and tutorials that the marriage act did not prevent same sex marriage nor did the constitution ... you can guess how popular I was ... but they couldn't actually point out where I was wrong Roll forward and John Howard managed to hear that what I was spouting might be correct so they pushed through an amendment to the marriage act make marriage opposite sex only ... strangely that decision did not require a reference to the Australian public as a whole, but it seems Howards political descendants take a whole different approach in undoing what they did :-( Roll forward a bit more and an upstart Territory in the form of the ACT try to - excuse the pun - force equal marriage in though the back door and the High Court then does the only possible thing it can and slaps down the laws because Territory laws are in total subject to Federal oversight as they derive all power from the Federal - not like States here where they have powers and rights in their own right BUT also go on to make it clear the constitution allows for equal marriage and its up to the Fed parliament to amend the marriage act. Roll on a few more years and we have the mess we have. Seems a shame I didn't actually have anyone I wanted to marry in 1991 or I could have really made the 6 o'clock news. As is stands I married my husband in the UK last year before returning to OZ dragging him with me and we are waiting for the Australian Government to sort out the laws to align with what really does appear to be a majority view of the population and allow the laws here to recognize our marriage. And Yenn ... if people of a religious bent (or non-religious bent) have a real objection to the use of the term marriage in relation to what the government allows as a recognised and approved union I am prepared to explore the option to downgrade ALL existing marriages in Australian and make them all Civil Partnerships - you see if what gay and lesbian people have at the moment is enough it really should be enough for everyone - yeah? Strange thing about equality - you really cannot have too much of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 read "Animal Farm". Some are more equal than others. The church influence in this is a strong factor. Most churches are Patriarchal as are most tribes. The inheritance goes through the men, as does the name of the offspring. Women were owned or bought or captured. Surely we are now beyond the attitudes more appropriately belonging to a bygone age that held people in bondage and freedom was for the wealthy/powerful. The Church often says sex is for procreation as is marriage. If the wife was barren she was not worth much, and often ridiculed. It even has reared it's ugly head in our parliament . There some dreadful statements being made against same sex parents. I doubt they perform any worse than the ordinary variety, which is nothing to brag about. Nev 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 read "Animal Farm". Some are more equal than others. The church influence in this is a strong factor. Most churches are Patriarchal as are most tribes. The inheritance goes through the men, as does the name of the offspring. Women were owned or bought or captured. Surely we are now beyond the attitudes more appropriately belonging to a bygone age that held people in bondage and freedom was for the wealthy/powerful. The Church often says sex is for procreation as is marriage. If the wife was barren she was not worth much, and often ridiculed. It even has reared it's ugly head in our parliament . There some dreadful statements being made against same sex parents. I doubt they perform any worse than the ordinary variety, which is nothing to brag about. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 For the life of me, I can't see why there's all this fuss over marriage ( whatever gender combination). I've tried marriage a couple of times and it just wasn't worth getting excited about. If anything, it almost tempted me to change teams just so everyone would stop putting pressure on me to go get married to my partner! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 For the life of me, I can't see why there's all this fuss over marriage ( whatever gender combination). I've tried marriage a couple of times and it just wasn't worth getting excited about. If anything, it almost tempted me to change teams just so everyone would stop putting pressure on me to go get married to my partner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Marriage ruins a lot of beautiful relationships. Nev 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Marriage ruins a lot of beautiful relationships. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think your comment is disgusting, GG. I find it neither funny nor respectful of the rest of us here who possibly have friends or family who are same sex attracted and I wonder what sort of an individual feels it appropriate to post things like that on a public forum.Kaz Name a joke that doesn't take the piss out of someone or some group, it's not an easy task. What is damaging society and has gone way overboard is political correctness. I take as much crap as anyone in the forum over my engine delays and being in China, including from GG ... I'll survive, and laughing most of the time. I genuinely don't give a toss what a persons preferences are, but you're not coming to my BBQ if you can't share a joke. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think your comment is disgusting, GG. I find it neither funny nor respectful of the rest of us here who possibly have friends or family who are same sex attracted and I wonder what sort of an individual feels it appropriate to post things like that on a public forum.Kaz Name a joke that doesn't take the piss out of someone or some group, it's not an easy task. What is damaging society and has gone way overboard is political correctness. I take as much crap as anyone in the forum over my engine delays and being in China, including from GG ... I'll survive, and laughing most of the time. I genuinely don't give a toss what a persons preferences are, but you're not coming to my BBQ if you can't share a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 True but today a lot pre judge people. Just because you have a certain view it is assumed you belong to a certain"undesirable" mob who are the cause of all of societies ills. (whatever is fashionable at the time for the pet hate). Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 True but today a lot pre judge people. Just because you have a certain view it is assumed you belong to a certain"undesirable" mob who are the cause of all of societies ills. (whatever is fashionable at the time for the pet hate). Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmick Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I genuinely don't give a toss what a persons preferences are, but you're not coming to my BBQ if you can't share a joke. I'd be concerned about what might be on the BBQ in China 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmick Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I genuinely don't give a toss what a persons preferences are, but you're not coming to my BBQ if you can't share a joke. I'd be concerned about what might be on the BBQ in China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Roof rabbit or Fido. Guts of crab.. What are Korean wonder balls? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Roof rabbit or Fido. Guts of crab.. What are Korean wonder balls? Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Crickey! All this discussion over a noisy fart gun. What's needed is an aerosol can of bu||sh!it repellent. OME 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Crickey! All this discussion over a noisy fart gun. What's needed is an aerosol can of bu||sh!it repellent. OME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 you see if what gay and lesbian people have at the moment is enough it really should be enough for everyone - yeah?Strange thing about equality - you really cannot have too much of it. Current figures put couples at near 80% under 30 not married, 50% under 40 not married, with marriages declining, certainly Church marriages declining rapidly with celebrant marriages on a shallower slope. Marriage is becoming far less important in society and "Gay rights" have gradually matured and have found acceptance and without a single doubt, Australia is one of the World's most tolerant societies of those who choose to live outside what was previously the accepted 'norm'. And when I say tolerant, I actually mean most Australians just don't give a toss either way (and constantly shoving it in their faces can backfire). Sure, any minority group will always get some bigotry along the way, take a teaspoon of cement and harden up, but there can be no doubt as to Gay Partnerships that a reasonable balance, i.e. "Equality", has been achieved to date. Yes, sure, you can't currently get a marriage certificate, so what, it will come in some form to you shortly without doubt, but in the meantime as Couples you have every single right afforded to you under law that any other Partnered Couple does and yet recently there has been an over the top, selfish, childish social guilt movement for a piece of paper that apparently should take centre stage over housing, employment, medical care, crime, poverty, etc etc .. I personally disagree that so much publicity is being given to this (relative) non-issue while for example, so many people hand over most of their wages just to live in a house - including Gays and Lesbians, it affects us all. I'll say that again for those who may not be clear, Gay or Lesbian Partners living together have every legal right recognised as a Defacto couple in Australia - this is all over the actual marriage certificate, there is NO discrimination otherwise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Australia 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 you see if what gay and lesbian people have at the moment is enough it really should be enough for everyone - yeah?Strange thing about equality - you really cannot have too much of it. Current figures put couples at near 80% under 30 not married, 50% under 40 not married, with marriages declining, certainly Church marriages declining rapidly with celebrant marriages on a shallower slope. Marriage is becoming far less important in society and "Gay rights" have gradually matured and have found acceptance and without a single doubt, Australia is one of the World's most tolerant societies of those who choose to live outside what was previously the accepted 'norm'. And when I say tolerant, I actually mean most Australians just don't give a toss either way (and constantly shoving it in their faces can backfire). Sure, any minority group will always get some bigotry along the way, take a teaspoon of cement and harden up, but there can be no doubt as to Gay Partnerships that a reasonable balance, i.e. "Equality", has been achieved to date. Yes, sure, you can't currently get a marriage certificate, so what, it will come in some form to you shortly without doubt, but in the meantime as Couples you have every single right afforded to you under law that any other Partnered Couple does and yet recently there has been an over the top, selfish, childish social guilt movement for a piece of paper that apparently should take centre stage over housing, employment, medical care, crime, poverty, etc etc .. I personally disagree that so much publicity is being given to this (relative) non-issue while for example, so many people hand over most of their wages just to live in a house - including Gays and Lesbians, it affects us all. I'll say that again for those who may not be clear, Gay or Lesbian Partners living together have every legal right recognised as a Defacto couple in Australia - this is all over the actual marriage certificate, there is NO discrimination otherwise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recognition_of_same-sex_unions_in_Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I guess it's important to those who feel it's important. I have to take their word for it. It's not for me to decide if their feelings are real. Personally it doesn't affect ME. I've never admired Poofterbashers and I don't know why some lesbians seem to hate men. At least the gay guys talk to women and are pretty good company and very neat, but you don't get easily talked to by the lesbian ladies, but I have had a few exceptions who I get along with fine, having worked with them, but you can't assume it will be easy . All sexual dispositions are people at the end of the day pretty much the same needs, feelings and fragility. We are very capable of being cruel to each other. Nev 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I guess it's important to those who feel it's important. I have to take their word for it. It's not for me to decide if their feelings are real. Personally it doesn't affect ME. I've never admired Poofterbashers and I don't know why some lesbians seem to hate men. At least the gay guys talk to women and are pretty good company and very neat, but you don't get easily talked to by the lesbian ladies, but I have had a few exceptions who I get along with fine, having worked with them, but you can't assume it will be easy . All sexual dispositions are people at the end of the day pretty much the same needs, feelings and fragility. We are very capable of being cruel to each other. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'd be concerned about what might be on the BBQ in China Rat is not uncommon in the seedy side street stalls. I'd be more worried about what they cook them in, Google "Gutter Oil" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi303 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'd be concerned about what might be on the BBQ in China Rat is not uncommon in the seedy side street stalls. I'd be more worried about what they cook them in, Google "Gutter Oil" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 There they go again : Irish referendum". The people of Lesbos island had Nothing whatever to say or do in another country,s politics. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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