facthunter Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 Having the term "experimental" in the title might create room to get the regulator to cut a bit of slack. The way RAAus is heading it's got nothing markedly different to VH looming, and trending closer. Taking over GA was never the deal. Bigger isn't better especially if you lose what you wanted in the first place. Nev 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 On the ELAAA facebook page Keith has announced "The big day is getting closer!" and posted a photo of the ASIC registration of E&LAAA Pty Ltd effective 13 September 2016, with "Look at this, action is happening." ELAAA still describes itself as "ELAAA (Experimental Light Aircraft Aviators Australia) is a light sport aviation association yet to be approved to administer light aircraft in OZ."I am assuming ELAAA is in negotiations to become a self administering sport aviation organisation under CASA? Keith may be able to cryptically update us on progress and who the directors are and what they hope to administer, and when. Bit of news for you Sue, I Keith Page did not post the ELAAA Pty. Ltd.. ASIC registration on face book. Yes I did make comment, governed by reasons obvious to every one. The comments were made because of the shananigans going on within the RAAus regards the opps manual, tech manual and the constitution, with an alternative organisation to manage the running of the light aircraft. Would not you think they will move their business to where there is clear direction and no politics. That one is not hard to work out. KP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Having the term "experimental" in the title might create room to get the regulator to cut a bit of slack. The way RAAus is heading it's got nothing markedly different to VH looming, and trending closer. Taking over GA was never the deal. Bigger isn't better especially if you lose what you wanted in the first place. Nev You are on the money F_H, has been my concern for a long time Home build, Amature Build, Experimental build . It is amazes me so many of the number of instruments which are in the big GA stuff started life in our little aircraft. Simple they got hold of put in (1)Made it more expensive (2)Then got it certified. Whacko all the testing, experiment was done where did it all end up.... .????????. "Home/amature/experimental is dangerous but where did their good innovations end up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomadpete Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 What makes you think that a new organisation could avoid political problems? Any group doing anything will have the same old issues to deal with. And no matter how well intentioned this one is, it seems to be starting with some avoidance of transparency. Just sayin' 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 What makes you think that a new organisation could avoid political problems? Any group doing anything will have the same old issues to deal with. And no matter how well intentioned this one is, it seems to be starting with some avoidance of transparency. Just sayin' People get about with the modern words - transparency and safety oh what fun they have with them. Just consider what they mean - to me they are incorporated into a structure so someone can be blamed. All just because some one did not open their eyes. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonRamsay Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Now that you've come clean, Keith Page, and admitted what you are up to it is easier to understand your unrelenting damning of everything RAAus does. Good luck with running your version of RAAus for personal profit. Just be sure you write your own Ops and Tech manuals and Safety Management system and don't attempt to filch RAAus intellectual property and copyrights. Competition can be good for customers as long as they choose the successful model and don't do their dough on a dud. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 New organisation? Ummmm has anyone actually checked the ELAAA web site! I have. And dodgy!!!! Brings up this person ( fake account) when clinking the web site link ..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 All manuals have been approved by CASA except for the last one which has been submitted and is also about to be approved. They are written from scratch by a very professional aviation person and due to the fact that there are so many more benefits for recreational aviators in them it would have been insane to have used any of the limiting benefits of RAAus stuff. For example your RAAus pilot certificate is NOT world recognised but the new body ones ARE. There are so many more advantages coming but it is not for me to announce them. The CEO, who is a solicitor is a regular poster on here so it is up to them 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Post #108 adds clarity to so much of what has been going on here over the last several years. Thanks for a very enlightening post Ian. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 My statements about direction are based on what I think is a risk of happening the way things are going. Management of how an organisation "grows" is one thing and direction and essence is another. CASA was hostile to RAAus when McCormick took the reins and we are being forced in a direction away from what was the "ESSENCE" of our movement to perhaps running GA to suit CASA. Helping CASA out means destruction of the nature of our movement pure and simple as coping with home made planes is not something they are have shown themselves to be capable of. Don't be distracted about AUW.. AUW IS a distraction. and has been used as one. The "essence" involves building and maintenance by the operator/owner for recreational flying Not COMMERCIAL. We accept restrictions like one ONLY pax who is Informed and restrictions of where you can fly. I've not contacted or been contacted by any organisation, working with or for any existing or proposed aviation body. I look to EAA in the US as how to do things. There was a time about 8 years ago (or longer) when we were on the verge of getting it right. We have had some difficulty even surviving, but now I don't know where it's going with any degree of certainty at all. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Now that you've come clean, Keith Page, and admitted what you are up to it is easier to understand your unrelenting damning of everything RAAus does.Good luck with running your version of RAAus for personal profit. Just be sure you write your own Ops and Tech manuals and Safety Management system and don't attempt to filch RAAus intellectual property and copyrights. Competition can be good for customers as long as they choose the successful model and don't do their dough on a dud. Good Morning Don, You and I at it again. You have forced me to make few corrections. *I have been unrelenting on the constitution as I did promise a friend I would do my level best regarding the inconsistencies. I wanted the people to look at the broad implications of agreeing with an unfinished article. *Ops. and Tech. manuals who would copy them, they need a lot of correcting. I thought intellectual property was supposed to be accurate and beyond reproach. *No personal profit involved with company as you are a special company accountant you will be up to speed with that one. So the profit line can be forgotten as of now. Forget the profit thingy. KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Sorry nev 8 years ago is when the crap started with my aircraft and continues when the our governing body refuse to take responsibility for their totally blatant disregard off our rules and regulation Neil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 I first joined AUF in 1988 so I have a long history with it, it allows me to do what I want to do. In that time I have flown Thrusters, Gazelles, Tecnams and Pioneers. If a new body is to be successful it will surely need to attract the support of sports pilots. If I am considered to be a potential member of this new organization I will need to be convinced that it will be better for me and for sports aviation generally. I don't even know who I am addressing here. Who is ELAAA? The first I knew of this was a cryptic posting of a company registration certificate, no explanation (and not even posted the right way up). I gather from a couple of the comments that some people were in the know. Was post #41 the official announcement of this new venture, if so it was poorly done. Is there a web site? I do see that there is a FB page although I discovered this by accident. I understand from post #108 that the manuals have been written and approved by CASA. When do potential members get to give their input? Wasn't RAUS heavily criticised for submitting it's manuals to CASA without getting input from it's members? When do potential members get to see the manuals. Who is the CEO? Will this new body only be for rag and tube or all aircraft that I can fly under RAAUS? I want to fly fast and high AND low and slow. I am concerned that we could end up with two weak organisations instead of one strong organisation. Will this kind of split be reflected in this forum? If this forum becomes anti RAAUS and pro ELAAA then I don't see the point in me being here and I would suggest others may feel the same. Is there a projected membership cost? My negativity is more along the lines of healthy scepticism. Any new body will survive or fail on what it has to offer it's members, so far we are in the dark on that. A new body will have to ensure that it does not do those things that it criticizes RAAUS for doing. Although I am coming from a sceptical and perhaps negative perspective I am open to any sales pitch as long as it provides accurate information about how it will operate and what the benefits would be. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 For example your RAAus pilot certificate is NOT world recognised but the new body ones ARE. Ian, ( &Keith?), that sentence implies that the E&LAAA has achieved recognised status as an administering organisation? Is that correct or a typo? One would hope that the new org's aviation industry person consulted widely with its membership when drafting the manuals or the organisation is likely to suffer the same complaints and accusations of elitism that the RAA has endured in social media in recent times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 If you are more sceptical than I am, it's chronic. but if you aren't sceptical at my stage of the game, you have been "on" something that puts you in a separate world, divorced from reality. Nev 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 And, of course, with ASIC everything is secret unless you pay them money. With the proposed privatisation (moneterisation) of the ASIC Registry function you can be assured that it will get worse. This is tax, taxation, T.A.X. by any other name, so favoured by government on the right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 All I am prepared to answer is the question regarding this site. Firstly and foremost, this site supports ALL recreational aviators, that includes RAAus, HGFA, GFA, powered chutes, General Aviation PPL, E&LAAA, and all others in between...this is my perspective as Site Administrator. With that aside, I am personally one that will be waiting in line to change over to E&LAAA on the first day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 And, of course, with ASIC everything is secret unless you pay them money. With the proposed privatisation (moneterisation) of the ASIC Registry function you can be assured that it will get worse.This is tax, taxation, T.A.X. by any other name, so favoured by government on the right Which post are you replying to Col. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 New organisation? Ummmm has anyone actually checked the ELAAA web site! I have. And dodgy!!!! Brings up this person ( fake account) when clinking the web site link ..?[ATTACH=full]45964[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]45965[/ATTACH] ELAAA is not a fake account it works for me and 1000's of others. I do know though FB accounts links are being fiddled with for whatever reason by certain people. Maybe it's sabotage from another disgruntled supplier or a secret Muslim Jihad movement trying to take over sports aircraft in Australia for evil purposes we better inform ASIO. OMG get a life. I have checked it out without a problem. The Alban Tafili site has nothing on it. You can't even join it. There is a clitch obviously which FB will more likely fix in due course. It would also appear that in order to look at ELAAA site you need to be registered with FB and if you check it in Google first that seems to be the problem. I'm sure that it will now be rectified in due course as one would assume that it has been reported. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Another thing I will say is that RAAus is very reluctant to answer questions on secret deals that have been made ignoring members, specific conversations that were had, in fact questions are now being completely ignored and answers not even being given. In fact there are many more questions that are going to be asked like the attempts to breach security by an RAAus executive and even questions relating to theft that occurred by an RAAus representative. Their actions are speaking louder than words to me and it is all going into the one bucket. We have now seen two thirds of our financial reserves gone over the last couple of years and there will be more money going out. I said many months ago that things were happening but were as usual howled down, just like when I raised the issues with the Runciman/Tizzard era...well, watch again. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 All I am prepared to answer is the question regarding this site. Firstly and foremost, this site supports ALL recreational aviators, that includes RAAus, HGFA, GFA, powered chutes, General Aviation PPL, E&LAAA, and all others in between...this is my perspective as Site Administrator.With that aside, I am personally one that will be waiting in line to change over to E&LAAA on the first day Thank you Ian. There was no suggestion that this site did not support recreational aviators. Perhaps Keith or the CEO of E&LAAA could answer the question of whether the E&LAAA has gained CASA acreditation as an administering body yet and is authorised to issue pilot certificates/licences in its own right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 So much negativity, gentlemen can't you see the forest for the trees. My interpretation of the White report is that the Government need to ensure that there is competition in the industry not a tardy she'll be right mate because they have nowhere else to go, they have no choice and therefore, they have to come to us. If ELAAA does work then this will see RAA get stronger and more accountable for it's services to it's subscribers. Things can't get any worse now can they? Some love Holden's and some love Ford's it really boils down to a matter of choice, doesn't it. Also maybe ELAAA is not entering the arena for the sole purpose of running the same race as RAA it may also be covering choices that RAA don't, simple isn't it, it could be filling a nitch that at this time presents itself as a void. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Yes well ignoring questions is not the sole province of the RAA. We've probably all asked questions of someone in authority and either been ignored or fobbed off. It is deplorable no matter where it occurs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 Which post are you replying to Col. ASIC Registration of this new organisation including directors, officers and financial accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 You could be right Rick-p time will tell. Better communication might also help their cause. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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