winsor68 Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 There are a couple of gliding clubs I know that own their own land and they are much better off for it.The Constellation model club also owns their own land and they are in a much better place because of it too. Maybe RAAus money could help locals and in return external RAAus members could have rights. I like the idea in principle but each case would need to be justified. Ra-Aus is a body established to administer the sport of recreational aviation in Australia. It is not a regional club. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coljones Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 We are an Australian wide organisation (although sometimes one could be forgiven for thinking otherwise)Purchasing & maintaining an airfield in ACT or even Vic could hardly be pushed as "collective good". Time will tell, but I suggest our organisation is heading into dangerous or at least worrying times. And Temora offers no immediate advantage to the vast majority of members either. We don't need solutions looking for a problem. I thinkCaspers analysis bears consideration. I think we need think about protecting what we have before we gallivant off searching for the last RAA in Oz 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 This is a rubbish arguement, RAA Aus has no business trying to spend money on airfields etc, it is there to run the sport, not become landlords and airport owners. Spending money we dont have on real estate we dont need seems a criminal misuse of members funds. Winsor68 is correct, its not a club its an administration body. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 We do have a problem (along with other sections of sport flying and GA ) with aerodromes. Work with the whole movement. Small local efforts in poor country where land is cheap are possible in a few isolated cases. Plenty of good facilities are around hardly used. Holbrook, Benalla. Usually falls to the same small group to do all the work. How are places like Wentworth Airpark going? Goolwa seemed good last time I was there. If you are on valuable land you will have to fight to keep it. Developers are always hanging around to get it. Same with good farming land near towns. Plant "Gloria Somes on it. People whinge about aircraft noise and don't see any benefit from it. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Access to airports is critical, if there are no places to learn to fly there will be no new pilots and then RAAus(and general aviation in general) will disappear.... I also think that the decision to make the list aircraft owners details/registrations secret has built some resentment from airport owners toward RAAus aircraft. Why would they go out of their way to encourage more aircraft to fly into their airport when they are going to struggle to collect landing/parking fees? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 I see that others have seen the original dod. about this. If it was important it should have been in the email self congratulations that were sent out. Our leaders seem to speak before they think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Why not do some lobby work to get some of those closed airports available to RAAus operations.? KP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Frank could you quote the part where it mentions buying and maintains an airport in the ACT or VIC? I haven't read the article but it seems from what was quoted earlier that there wasn't any particular location in mind but it seemed to come off as multiple locations and NOT suggesting to buy them all, I think the words were "owning OR managing"This subject does have positives and negatives on both sides but reading things into either argument that aren't there doesn't really help either idea. I think it would be nice to have a discussion without doom and gloom. Managing an airfield will not make a big difference ... whoever built and runs it now will be looking for at least a reasonable return and will value the airfield at a very highest value ... so take the $750k buy/build cost and replace it with around $100k rental and you get an annual cost of $250k minimum or around $30/member per year increase for each airfield managed ... and as an example Glen Innes tried/is trying to get shot of its airfield to a very large flying school to be built there ... and the price put on the airfield was rather a lot more than $1m so good luck finding airfields NEAR population centres that need management and are available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 We need more ALA's. Not sure if RA-Aus should be buying them but, they certainly should be supporting those of us that try and offer one to all pilots. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 The old "privacy at all costs" mentality is really coming home to roost Make the register available & watch all the airfields let you in again if you want to hide your identity why should anyone let you access their facilities? 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsor68 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 The old "privacy at all costs" mentality is really coming home to roostMake the register available & watch all the airfields let you in again if you want to hide your identity why should anyone let you access their facilities? Seriously. How anyone thinks this is a good idea in GA or RA is beyond me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Perhaps people could have a read of the article and form their own views. The article wasn't specifically about an Airport in Canberra.https://www.raa.asn.au/storage/64-december-2016-w.pdf "I reckon that by owning or taking over the management of a few airports or properties around the country in strategic locations, we would actually help to ultimately reduce our membership fees. Of course it wouldn’t come for free, but it shouldn’t be expensive either" and another quote: "To me, it would be less about the money and more about protecting what we do. In most communities there are sportsgrounds, swimming pools, halls, etc. which can be used by the public. For many years we’ve been calling for funding to do similar things for pilots and aircraft owners, but we get treated like a distant cousin no one cares about. Perhaps it’s time to change the way we look at the problem and pull together to address it in a way which would make a real difference. Perhaps if we stop doing what we’ve always done, we’ll stop getting what we’ve always gotten. Why not tackle the problem head on and address the issues directly? If we take control of our landing areas, maybe, just maybe, we could turn airports back into something for aviators and stem the tide of residential and commercial developments which now take priority over our safety." Sounds like the dribble of a frustrated emperor without an empire,reaching out for others to give him one ,,,,,,,.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Frank could you quote the part where it mentions buying and maintains an airport in the ACT or VIC? I haven't read the article but it seems from what was quoted earlier that there wasn't any particular location in mind but it seemed to come off as multiple locations and NOT suggesting to buy them all, I think the words were "owning OR managing"This subject does have positives and negatives on both sides but reading things into either argument that aren't there doesn't really help either idea. I think it would be nice to have a discussion without doom and gloom. Quote from Monk,s story/......... Over the years, I have had many approaches from people in the ACT about the possibility of establishing a private aviation alternative to Canberra Airport. Suggestions have been made to develop locations both to the north of Canberra in the Yass region, as well as to the south Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bull Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Ra-Aus is a body established to administer the sport of recreational aviation in Australia. It is not a regional club. Maybe that's the problem........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Quote from Monk,s story/.........Over the years, I have had many approaches from people in the ACT about the possibility of establishing a private aviation alternative to Canberra Airport. Suggestions have been made to develop locations both to the north of Canberra in the Yass region, as well as to the south Not that I agree with the notion of a buying of an airport with the proceeds of an increase in our RAA membership fees, there does seem a big shortage of airfields for RAA aircraft to visit in the ACT area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Not that I agree with the notion of a buying of an airport with the proceeds of an increase in our RAA membership fees, there does seem a big shortage of airfields for RAA aircraft to visit in the ACT area. Nothing personal mate but bloody hell, fancy anybody from the populated regions of the Eastern States commenting on lack of airfields to visit. Come over to WA and you'd be happy to find even an un-inhabited dirt strip as a destination within 25 nm of where you departed from. I must however, qualify my response by confessing that I'm unfamiliar with airstrip access within ACT perimeters. Best wishes for the New Year to you and yours. cheers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Nothing personal mate but bloody hell, fancy anybody from the populated regions of the Eastern States commenting on lack of airfields to visit. Come over to WA and you'd be happy to find even an un-inhabited dirt strip as a destination within 25 nm of where you departed from. I must however, qualify my response by confessing that I'm unfamiliar with airstrip access within ACT perimeters. Best wishes for the New Year to you and yours. cheers None taken Riley, I am also unfamiliar with the ACT. I was just looking at the VTC of the ACT, and it looks rather lacking in airfields when compared to most of the populated areas on this side of the country. A XC endorsement will allow you to go beyond 25nm, you will only be limited by fuel.Thanks and happy new year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Here's Canberras problem... From the Sydney Morning Herald Feb 2012 Why Canberra needs a second airport urgently 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 The old "privacy at all costs" mentality is really coming home to roostMake the register available & watch all the airfields let you in again if you want to hide your identity why should anyone let you access their facilities? I say that would not be true. Reason:- By now we would have something leaked to confirm that suspicion. More to the point these stupid teaching from Harvard. Everything must make a profit and how that profit formula is calculated. Public services and infrastructure formation and running of them is paid for by tax. Sad to say our tax is going to every other things but where it is supposed to be spent. This user pays idea for public services and infrastructure is a way our governments, are trying to rip us off more. What are we paying our taxes for.????????????????????????????? KP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 What are we paying our taxes for.?????????????????????????????KP Well what you are NOT paying them for is for four million or so people to make a handy little income direct from Centrelink rather than working for it. I don't think people struggling on wages in the current climate would welcome your thought that their taxes should be going into government owned airfields for hobby pilots though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Page Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Well what you are NOT paying them for is for four million or so people to make a handy little income direct from Centrelink rather than working for it.I don't think people struggling on wages in the current climate would welcome your thought that their taxes should be going into government owned airfields for hobby pilots though. Go back a bit and look how Australia was developed. There were airfields, railways, roads, bridges, electricity, postal service, hospitals, special funds to develop Australia all for - a lot less tax than we are paying now, yes we did pay a bit for those services that is OK. There is another aspect - unemployment was also almost non existent. Now there are plans to take all that off us, sell to organisations to make a handsome profit and get us to pay full commercial dollar and still paying tax. And then we struggle harder with our wages. Looks like there needs to be another gravy train built just to carry the extra cargo. If you take all these services away there will be a severe case of centralisation and a big case to build bigger and more complicated services in the large cities. Would it be a good idea to set a situation where decentralisation would be the go? For me that is the go. Called foresight. What we could do -- utilise some of these centre link recipients to man these utilities. KP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakej Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Sounds like Canberra is a "maintained" monopoly by politicians, I wonder how that happens :cops:certainly a much more profitable way of doing business IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timb Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I disagree Keith In my experiences with the AUF a sizeable number of aircraft owners would have formed a lynch party & marched on Canberra if the register had been made public. Whether to hide the aircraft from ex-wives, creditors, local authorities or airfield operators, no matter If you want to have the privileges of airspace & airfield access, there are corresponding responsibilities 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I disagree KeithIn my experiences with the AUF a sizeable number of aircraft owners would have formed a lynch party & marched on Canberra if the register had been made public. Whether to hide the aircraft from ex-wives, creditors, local authorities or airfield operators, no matter If you want to have the privileges of airspace & airfield access, there are corresponding responsibilities I'm sure you'll just as gladly make available the name and address that attaches to your motor vehicle as well then? Sorry but my aircraft are registered and if someone with a legal right needs to know the address of my aircraft then they will have access through the RAAus. Sorry but there are reasons registers of individually valuable items are not public. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Well what you are NOT paying them for is for four million or so people to make a handy little income direct from Centrelink rather than working for it.I don't think people struggling on wages in the current climate would welcome your thought that their taxes should be going into government owned airfields for hobby pilots though. Just a thought.... how many airfields were built during WW2 and how many today are still in use as recreational airfields? I see airfields as a national investment in both security and infrastructure. Yes, they may not be up to the standard required to operate F18's from, but with not that much effort , they could be if required. I think that a large recreational aviation sector has a flow on effect to the waning commercial aviation sector, that is, more pilots making the move from recreational to commercial, which has to be good for the economy and the country. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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