raven Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 When I was young, Limbach, Germany, took air-cooled VW car engines and converted loads of them to safer yet more powerful aircraft engines mainly due to their initial light weight and opposed design. Many were produced although a batch of dual ignition magneto's caused a bunch of engine outs including our plane, a stol Protech. I believe they were popular for some time. Subaru engines did not prove to have the reliability from what I saw back then. Going forward, the moment battery technology can 'halve' the weight of lithium batteries, electric motors will take off like mad I believe as the compact size, massive torque, cooling, noise, no flammable liquids etc etc make them far superior. In motorcycles, last year, saw some of the first weight-matching, distance-matching battery/elec bikes. Quick release battery swap cassettes for light aircraft would obviouly be necessary at many locations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Since 2017 KTM engines have been built in China As FAR as I know they were never built by Rotax. Reply to a Post a bit back. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 Fuji FA-200 aero Subaru - Nice looking , very much of the erra (like a US derived aircraft) Disappointing (to me) that they did not go the whole hog and use their own engine. Speculation: Didn't get the US sales, where very similar homegrown aircraft would have been preferred. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 There were a few around. Subaru don't make an aircooled engine. Just being a "boxer" doesn't make it an aero engine. RR built some Continentals for a while. Porsche's aero engine was not a success. and they built very good aircooled engines. It's NOT that EASY to build a good aero engine. Nev 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted January 21 Author Share Posted January 21 (edited) "It's NOT that EASY to build a good aero engine." With no evidence/experience to back my opinion - I doubt this statement. While an IC aero engine may need to have certain characteristics, specific to aircraft, these can not be a secret, known only to a select few aircraft engine builders. I am absolutely sure that the technical ability to design & make a good IC aero engine can be found in most, if not all developed and even some developing countries. The reasons for new (to the market) engines failing, is more likely due to market pressures - more specifically ; the USA is by far the largest single market. This coupled with, Uncle Sam being an extraordinarily parochial customer and a famously difficult (particularly to foreign products) legislative environment makes success of a newcomer difficult. Add to this the size of the World market (tiny by automotive measure), the conservatism of the customer base (stick with what you know) and presumably the cost of just setting up against established industry's. The combination of factors, unrelated to the technological challenge, is in my opinion what prevents new engines entering the marketplace and if they do, succeeding. Edited January 21 by skippydiesel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 The bottom line is the aero engine market is tiny, and offers no ability to mass produce to meet a mass market - so the established aero engine manufacturers effectively have it all sewn up. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Rv-10 A local flew several hundred hours with an LS engine in his 10 but eventually replaced the LS with a Lycoming Lots of starter issues . Dependability issues on fly outs with our group. The joke was that the rest of us had to save empty seats so his pax could get home. this is from a vans group 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 3 minutes ago, BrendAn said: Rv-10 A local flew several hundred hours with an LS engine in his 10 but eventually replaced the LS with a Lycoming Lots of starter issues . Dependability issues on fly outs with our group. The joke was that the rest of us had to save empty seats so his pax could get home. this is from a vans group it would be interesting to know what the problems were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Skip IF it WAS easy, plenty would have done it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 GM long ago ceased building quality and reliability into their products, and I for one, wouldn't fly behind anything with a GM power unit up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, onetrack said: GM long ago ceased building quality and reliability into their products, and I for one, wouldn't fly behind anything with a GM power unit up front. i bet its the conversion and ancillaries that had problems. Ls engines are very reliable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, BrendAn said: i bet its the conversion and ancillaries that had problems. Ls engines are very reliable. GM had 100 million small block engines to practice on before LS; I'd be giving that some thought. Jim Wickham's Chev 350 powered scale Mustang was easily the best sound in any dogfight show. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 4 hours ago, facthunter said: Skip IF it WAS easy, plenty would have done it. Nev Never said it was easy - just that the technology can't possibly be so demanding that others (than the established) are unable to make them. I believe that good old Uncle Sam is making it too hard for potential competitors. So pervasive is this anti new/foreign culture, it even infects many Australian LAME's and probably pilot/owners as well. Look at the Rotax experince - despite proven reliability & performance, within their HP range, their penerataton of the US market is still a long way from where it should be (with the exception of the military purchase of drone engines). After very many years Rotax has established a reasonable "beach head" in the US, so will get there -after all they have a better product!😈 It will be interesting to see how the larger Rotax will sell in the US, particularly now they are competing in the very popular sub 200 hp range, with their 140-160 hp engines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 More a quality control thing than complex technology AS A SOLUTION. You seem to believe in fairies in the garden branding. Rotax= Perfect . Anything else is crap. There's no conspiracy . It's not a larger Rotax. It's a more complex and expensive and more stressed one. How's it perfect when all the posts here are about issues with it?. The boosted ones are yet long term unproven and IF anything is wrong with the Concept of extracting MORE POWER, there's nowhere left to go with that design. It's fully tweaked. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) I saw this yesterday and spoke to the builder, Petr Gregory. It is a one off, using a VW engine. Probably a better use than for aircraft. Edited January 22 by pmccarthy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 A VW powered motorbike?? I guess he holds up traffic for kilometres, too? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) 2 hours ago, facthunter said: More a quality control thing than complex technology AS A SOLUTION. You seem to believe in fairies in the garden branding. Rotax= Perfect . Anything else is crap. There's no conspiracy . It's not a larger Rotax. It's a more complex and expensive and more stressed one. How's it perfect when all the posts here are about issues with it?. The boosted ones are yet long term unproven and IF anything is wrong with the Concept of extracting MORE POWER, there's nowhere left to go with that design. It's fully tweaked. Nev Were you on the Rotax design team nev. You are saying the engine has gone has far as it can go . How do you know what Rotax can do. It's the same as your comments about Rotax gearboxes. You reckon they are no good but people that own them have no trouble. You are a Rotax hater and I think it annoys you that they are such a great engine.😁 Edited January 22 by BrendAn 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 33 minutes ago, onetrack said: A VW powered motorbike?? I guess he holds up traffic for kilometres, too? There is an LS powered motor bike in Mackay. I'll did up an image. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrendAn Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 how about a 6.0 lt jetski 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skippydiesel Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 13 hours ago, facthunter said: More a quality control thing than complex technology AS A SOLUTION. Inference: Other than the existing aero engine makers, no one else cam meet the necessary quality control standards - no offence but BS! 🤣 You seem to believe in fairies in the garden branding. We don't use the word "fairy" any longer its considered derogatory, that and my faith have nothing to do with this debate😎 Rotax= Perfect . Your words certainly not mine and I disagree😜 Anything else is crap. Again your words and I still disagreed😜 There's no conspiracy . Oooh! the conspiracy word, nasty! Never said that, just pointed out the parochial nature of the US economy, as it relates to small aircraft and associated technologies😁 It's not a larger Rotax. It's a more complex and expensive and more stressed one. There are two and my reference was to HP, what are you referring to? Mass? CC's? 😁 How's it perfect when all the posts here are about issues with it?. As above The boosted ones are yet long term unproven (How long has the 914 been in production?) and IF anything is wrong with the Concept of extracting MORE POWER, there's nowhere left to go with that design. It's fully tweaked. (Your point being?) Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 20 minutes ago, skippydiesel said: He's talking about the older technology Skippy, way back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 What BS. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenaroo Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 14 hours ago, onetrack said: A VW powered motorbike?? I guess he holds up traffic for kilometres, too? Used to be quite a common conversion on Harleys and BMW. good torque for highway speeds, and had better carburetors for touring (altitude, humidity) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Not enough power to keep up with todays offerings and too bulky when a gearbox is added to it's length. VW's are fan cooled in a car. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The " VW " in My Hummel bird, is fan-cooled , That's cool. I ' must ' get that next prop finished. A big battery , relays , servo's . And radio receiver. Then an , ' IC Modeller Airfield ' , as my local is EV only . ( thinking outside the square ) . spacesailor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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