Vans Aircraft suffering cash flow difficulties

[RFguy]

SKippy, I do not beleive you will acheive those numbers. given that the sonex with the 3300 jab will  only make about 155 kn T at 6k feet at 7 gph) . (source : sourcebuilders website )
You migth do it for the same fuel consumption though, make the rotax work harder . fixed prop of course.

[RFguy]

back on topic. skippy please dont bring yout sonex and soneri  talk into the Van's forum.  We're tired of it.

Van's will be fine, YES VERY TRUE - they make a NICHE and HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER product-

which is a good commercial recipe to be able to put your prices up (as necessary) .

 

I doubt a 30% extra cost of kit would change anyone's buying habits... 

[rgmwa]

<---You can of course have Rotax economy AND an RV. 

[skippydiesel]

50 minutes ago, rgmwa said:

<---You can of course have Rotax economy AND an RV. 

Empty weight about the same as mine for much lower cruise speed BUT does have a better payload

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, RFguy said:

back on topic. skippy please dont bring yout sonex and soneri  talk into the Van's forum.  We're tired of it.

Van's will be fine, YES VERY TRUE - they make a NICHE and HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER product-

which is a good commercial recipe to be able to put your prices up (as necessary) .

 

I doubt a 30% extra cost of kit would change anyone's buying habits... 

Whaaaat???? Vans Forum ?????? - Maaaaaate!  They are wonderful looking,  now outdated aircraft. Soooo highly sought after, they are on the brink of financial collapse. The future is economy & quiet performance .

 

I have a CS prop but others have achieved similar Sonex cruise performance Rotax/ Fixed Prop

[rgmwa]

53 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

Empty weight about the same as mine for much lower cruise speed BUT does have a better payload

... and is not a Sonex. 🙂

[RossK]

55 minutes ago, skippydiesel said:

 Soooo highly sought after, they are on the brink of financial collapse. The future is economy & quiet performance .

 

Victim of their own success story actually.

Order book doubled and they accepted the orders at fixed prices, lead times blew out due to inability to meet demand, whilst costs rose over the last couple of years - they were eventually selling below cost.

Final blow was outsourcing to meet demand and got burnt by a couple of suppliers.

Not too disimilar to home builders here in Aus.

 

[skippydiesel]

6 hours ago, RFguy said:

back on topic. skippy please dont bring yout sonex and soneri  talk into the Van's forum.  We're tired of it.

Van's will be fine, YES VERY TRUE - they make a NICHE and HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER product-

which is a good commercial recipe to be able to put your prices up (as necessary) .

 

I doubt a 30% extra cost of kit would change anyone's buying habits... 

IJust so you know - not so much promoting Sonex (which includes Sonerai) more the idea that small aircraft can be so much more efficient & quieter than, the often wonderful looking, aircraft of the past (even if some are still being produced today) - don't really care what the airframe or engine is (hard to go past Rotax though) My message (not original) is all about the possibilities presented by good aerodynamics, matched to an efficient (& relativly quiet) engine.

[facthunter]

You would present a better case if you didn't resort to derogatory terms for  stuff you don't like though.  Nev

[kgwilson]

Chapter 11 in the US is a bit like voluntary administration here. In the Australian case an administrator is appointed to oversee the situation and hopefully get the company back to solvency, though more often it is a wind up & then working out the cents in the dollar to secured creditors and unsecured creditors after other things like wages, salarys etc have been worked through.

 

Vans has a fantastic reputation and their designs are as valid today as they always were. Just like the Cessna 172. I understand that owners of Vans aircraft are going to leap to the defence of the organisation, but you do not reach a point of insolvency through bad luck. This is through some bad business decisions often in response to a market downturn or shift in customer needs or demand. Sometimes what may seem at the time like overly harsh measures have to be taken. It is owners of companies they have founded with a high level of emotional attachment who most often fail to see the wood for the trees.

 

My earlier comments still stand.

[skippydiesel]

1 hour ago, facthunter said:

You would present a better case if you didn't resort to derogatory terms for  stuff you don't like though.  Nev

Just checked for "derogatory terms" - I guess you mean "spam can" - a commonly used term of affection, to describe metal aircraft but I guess if you want to take offence, be my guest.

FYI as I was a pains to point out, I have admired/lusted after many of these aircraft  (RV's/Mooneys/older straight tail Cessnas/etc) for a long long time - I don't dislike them, just think they are, with the availability of better technology, obsolete, (like myself 😜).

[facthunter]

It was just a bit of advice in general. Not really a matter of ME taking offence. Sheet metal is far from being an obsolete building material for Our type of aircraft. My preferred fuselage construction is metal tube. Why alienate anybody if you don't have to. We all expect DIFFERENT things from our aircraft.. IF we were all the same it'd be very boring.  We'll never be Supersonic. Affordable and safe come before that.  Nev

[gareth lacey]

1 hour ago, kgwilson said:

Chapter 11 in the US is a bit like voluntary administration here. In the Australian case an administrator is appointed to oversee the situation and hopefully get the company back to solvency, though more often it is a wind up & then working out the cents in the dollar to secured creditors and unsecured creditors after other things like wages, salarys etc have been worked through.

 

Vans has a fantastic reputation and their designs are as valid today as they always were. Just like the Cessna 172. I understand that owners of Vans aircraft are going to leap to the defence of the organisation, but you do not reach a point of insolvency through bad luck. This is through some bad business decisions often in response to a market downturn or shift in customer needs or demand. Sometimes what may seem at the time like overly harsh measures have to be taken. It is owners of companies they have founded with a high level of emotional attachment who most often fail to see the wood for the trees.

 

My earlier comments still stand.

But, liquidators are only doing it for themselves at ridiculous hourly rates.  4 weeks work Case , a very good friend had 2 contracts go belly up, lost almost $250,000 and was cash strapped , he could not pay his debts liquidator appointed, they clawed back $ 130,000 guess how much their fees were ,you guessed it $130,000 they are parasites , anyway ten years later he is now a millionaire with his factory work premises in the 1.8 value , and his own house is debt free,  no debts and is a  financially sound business, he also paid the small business debts off that he owed Liquidators = parasites ,bottom feeders

Edited December 9, 2023 by gareth lacey

[spacesailor]

Parasites!.

POLITICIANS. 

Never produced anything.  But Always feathering their Own nest First .

Politicians ' person with the  ' gift of the gab ' .

I read those remarks many years ago , in an English news paper .

Toilet reading . LoL

spacesailor

[kgwilson]

Liquidators are there to sell the assets and distribute what's left after their exorbitant fee. Administrators are there to to run the business back into profit if possible. That's why businesses go in to voluntary administration as per my earlier post. If that doesn't happen then they turn in to liquidators. Either way they extract pretty high fees.

Edited December 9, 2023 by kgwilson

[facthunter]

You get the politicians you deserve, space. Make the most of it before they take the vote from you. Plenty don't get the opportunity. If someone provides a service for you there will inevitably have to be adequate ways of administering it to stop people spivving the system. There are good and BAD politicians same as in any other organisations even ones you have NO control over. (Don't get the chance to vote for).  Nev

[skippydiesel]

 

I have always pondered the similarities between those who seek to lead through election/revolution and those who seek to lead us through religion.

 

In another context/situation, we would likely consider them of unsound mind.

[facthunter]

Well IF there is a God then having her guidance would be the Ultimate except when you look around the divinely Inspired places, on our poor Planet they are mostly not where you would choose to LIVE especially IF you are a female Because MOST religions are PATRIACHAL. and repressive.. . .  Nev

[skippydiesel]

"..........IF there is a God then having her guidance ......"

 

Hmmm! The questions I would ask are;

• How come he/she/it is in contact with you?
• Do hear voices?

[Litespeed]

I think Nev is making it plain, there ain't no God.

 

If their was, a benevolent caring one would be female.

 

 

[RFguy]

This concept is covered  regularly in science fiction.

 

[skippydiesel]

I didn't think I had to point out that - I have deep reservations about anyone who feels "called", either to lead or act as a conduit for a divine being. 

[turboplanner]

Is this the night of the Ferals?

[Flightrite]

I’ve been listening to the Vans CH11 hearing in court, seems there’s $22Mill been paid by buyers awaiting their kits…..OUCH! “IF” Vans comes thru this then those with current paid or part paid orders will either have to accept the huge increase under a new agreement (like a gun to your head!)or go on to the unsecured creditors list and hope for a few pennies in the dollar! 
Gotta feel for those caught in this mess! 😞

Edited December 9, 2023 by Flightrite

[facthunter]

Reading ALL of one's post helps. Not 1/2 a line out of context. .  Nev