6 cylinder surprise

[Red]

Jabirus are built light which together with Price  probably forms the 2 main attractions.

This focus on keeping weight down over other conventional flat 4 aircraft 4 strokes will always show up problems, the engine has undergone constant updates  to try and address failure points.

 

 

[Blueadventures]

2 hours ago, KRviator said:

Problem here is Jab is Oz based and the Australian Consumer Law might well come into play. If you can demonstrate you have suffered a consequential loss as a result of a faulty product, you are likely entitled to a remedy (Ie monetary compensation).

One would hope Jabiru is across that, or at least, has sufficient insurance to guard against it as while there wouldn't be many people (a few shearers, and flight schools perhaps) that could claim a loss of work on account of the crankshaft problem, just the $$ involved in R+R'ing the engine to send to them isn't gonna be cheap if you have to engage a L2 or LAME.

Spoke to a friend who flew today and he said the Jab 230 in his hangar with a new gen4 six cylinder and said I hoped its not subject to the recall.  On my way home before I phoned to ask what he found out.  The engine is subject to the recall and the owner will fly it to Bundaberg for the work on the 1st June, said expect a week turnaround.  I'm flying tomorrow and the owner of the 230 will be out there so I'll ask him.  We usually have a cuppa after a fly so will ask then if Jab are doing the removal and refit as part of the fix or if he is paying for the removal and refit.  He is very competent as has built and early model jab and a mechanic by trade so may even do some spanner turning down there.

[onetrack]

In my long experience (60 years) of owning, repairing and dealing with many warranty claims on a very wide range of engines - many from reputable manufacturers (including large American ones), the standard across-the-board warranty policy is - the manufacturer identifies the reason for the problem, and if they find and admit to faulty parts or components, the replacement is limited to the supply and installation of the faulty parts/components, and repairs are done at the manufacturers expense, limited to replacement of the faulty parts/components - and no other claims for costs or inconvenience, or other incidental losses, or replacement of associated parts/components, will be entertained.

 

One of the biggest problems I have found is actually trying to get manufacturers to admit to manufacturing faults. In some cases, I had to get an independent report that produced evidence of faulty parts/components. In this case, Jabiru have "manned up" and admitted they've produced a faulty component, and are willing to replace it at their cost.

 

I think this is very reasonable, and I don't think it's reasonable, or fair, or even legally enforceable, for Jabiru engine owners to try and get Jabiru to pay for transportation/relocation of the owners aircraft, or supply a brand new complete engine, or to try and claim other incidental costs related to the repair or downtime. 

[madhatter]

All I am looking for is to get the crankshaft installed correctly by competent individuals. I spent $28,000 on a new engine installed by the Jabiru distributor when the aircraft was purchased. There was a serious installation issue found after I received the aircraft which I corrected. I've been in this industry for a long time and people make mistakes, we all do. My only disappointment is that with the low total time they would not exchange the engine. Other than that I am ok.

[turboplanner]

3 hours ago, onetrack said:

In my long experience (60 years) of owning, repairing and dealing with many warranty claims on a very wide range of engines - many from reputable manufacturers (including large American ones), the standard across-the-board warranty policy is - the manufacturer identifies the reason for the problem, and if they find and admit to faulty parts or components, the replacement is limited to the supply and installation of the faulty parts/components, and repairs are done at the manufacturers expense, limited to replacement of the faulty parts/components - and no other claims for costs or inconvenience, or other incidental losses, or replacement of associated parts/components, will be entertained.

 

One of the biggest problems I have found is actually trying to get manufacturers to admit to manufacturing faults. In some cases, I had to get an independent report that produced evidence of faulty parts/components. In this case, Jabiru have "manned up" and admitted they've produced a faulty component, and are willing to replace it at their cost.

 

I think this is very reasonable, and I don't think it's reasonable, or fair, or even legally enforceable, for Jabiru engine owners to try and get Jabiru to pay for transportation/relocation of the owners aircraft, or supply a brand new complete engine, or to try and claim other incidental costs related to the repair or downtime. 

In Australia, after you've bought a product there's a Manufacturer's Warranty with a specified end period PLUS a Federal Government (Australian Competition & Consumer Commission) over-riding law (https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/warranties#:~:text=Consumer guarantees are automatic and,on the product or service.) explained in this link.

[skippydiesel]

The first hurdle , with Consumer Law " is paying for it. I went down this rabbit hole many years ago.

• Make a complaint to the authority
• Authority contacts product supplier
• Product supplier denies any responsibility
• Authority, no power of enforcement
• Advised I can take the matter to be heard by court
• First lodge $k?
• What? Faulty product cost $65
• Accept have been duded
• End of story

😈

 

Edited 2 hours ago by skippydiesel

[KRviator]

6 hours ago, turboplanner said:

In Australia, after you've bought a product there's a Manufacturer's Warranty with a specified end period PLUS a Federal Government (Australian Competition & Consumer Commission) over-riding law (https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/warranties#:~:text=Consumer guarantees are automatic and,on the product or service.) explained in this link.

Indeed. And from that link, you have the following section:
 

Quote

• who is responsible for any expenses associated with the warranty claim and how the consumer can claim back any expenses incurred

Now, while I think it's a tad harsh for someone like Jabiru to be expected to reimburse a hundred airplane owners for consequential losses - particularly given the costs involved in anything "aviation" -  the ACL provides scope for that to occur, so one would hope their relevant insurance policy covers such an event. 

Personally, I have pursued a few companies over warranty or flight cancellation claims through NCAT over the years and claimed consequential losses each time - and got them! I'm going through NCAT again now about a vehicle purchase and the deal negotiated and will again claim the losses incurred. In this istance, the 'direct loss' is $2K  - the consequential losses, associated with time off work to pursue it and so forth, will approach $4K.  Businesses seem to think consumers won't pursue it because it's not worth it. It is if you are prepared to stand your ground. The ACL is quite broad in allowing consumers to avoid being out of pocket as a result of a purchase from an Australian-based business, and about damn time, too.

[facthunter]

 Make it too tough and no one will bother supplying stuff for  what you want. Excess Litigation in the USA threatened to send the Big 3 broke at one time, so why would small producers run the risk. This show started of using Lawn mower engines.  Jabiru's treatment of Customers is well above the average and relatively cheap for Parts. No ONE sets out to make a part that fails. Having a recall is a good thing.  Nev