ducksrus Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 I attended a Casa mock ramp check at the Thangool flyin recently, which I found to be very informative. The volunteer pilot passed with flying colours, except her Ersa was out of date by about 1 week (apparently a new one was on order but she hadn"t received it yet). It got me thinking, with the 6 monthly reissue of charts and ersa, how much information actually changes, to warrant having to purchase new issues. If a record of amendments was made available and there were only minor changes, what if you could hand amend your old issues and write a statement on the chart that all amendments for the new issue have been annotated and sign it. Obviously for major airspace amendments you would need a new chart. It just seems a waste to me, having to throw out old charts, when the new issue may only have a very minor or perhaps no new changes. What are your thoughts ! Ducky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete duncan Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 How dare you think out of the box, showing traits of common sense like that will only lead to the end of uncivilisation as we thought we knew it. In the day and age of the newest model must be better, you should be grateful that someone has enabled ,with predictable regulatily, thousand$$ to be in posession of something BRAND NEW. Scuse me whilst I go and reinvent the Wheel .. Anyway, just a thought, and in no way insinuating that the powers that bee are a joke. Written and authorised by Pete 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 I attended a Casa mock ramp check at the Thangool flyin recently, which I found to be very informative. The volunteer pilot passed with flying colours, except her Ersa was out of date by about 1 week (apparently a new one was on order but she hadn"t received it yet).It got me thinking, with the 6 monthly reissue of charts and ersa, how much information actually changes, to warrant having to purchase new issues. If a record of amendments was made available and there were only minor changes, what if you could hand amend your old issues and write a statement on the chart that all amendments for the new issue have been annotated and sign it. Obviously for major airspace amendments you would need a new chart. It just seems a waste to me, having to throw out old charts, when the new issue may only have a very minor or perhaps no new changes. What are your thoughts ! Ducky I totally agree about the waste Pete, but I doubt many people would actually make corrections to their paper maps or ERSA. It seems the electronic versions are taking over, saving huge amounts of paper and allowing regular updates. …in theory. It all still depends on humans. With regular staff cuts and government mismanagement, I doubt there is a large team of qualified and dedicated people to do the job. I have twice gone through the channels of trying to get a map updated, but no joy. (The village of Dalman still appears on the Brisbane VNC, even though I helped dismantle it in the 1960's. There's nothing there. Meanwhile, a few miles west, the thriving village which inspires my avatar is not shown. Pilots could easily be misled by out of date maps.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 You draw lines on your maps and it would be a shame if you couldn't write useful information on it. Some aircraft have a GPWS ( Ground Proximity Warning System) . Sometimes it says "don't Sink" But I swear it actually says Don't THINK" in a moment of honesty. Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmccarthy Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 In the good old days, when the government was paying to mail out amendments, all the document sets were in ring binders and replacement pages were sent by mail. Of course, once the government stopped paying to distribute the safety information, there was no longer an incentive to do it cheaply and efficiently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 In the good old days, when the government was paying to mail out amendments, all the document sets were in ring binders and replacement pages were sent by mail. Of course, once the government stopped paying to distribute the safety information, there was no longer an incentive to do it cheaply and efficiently. ...and as the print run diminishes, the costs per unit escalate. Ever-accelerating change is now the only constant. Adapt or perish. If there were any of the old, highly experienced people left, they'd be out the door with the latest cuts. We hear now that staff have a shelf life of only about 6 years... Replaced just before they are due for long service leave, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Acquaintance recently attended a casa meet at caboolture, folks told ....by casa, the iPad is ok......no print backups required anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Isaac Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Which ultimately means those who want a printed backup should be able to print their own from an air services online source, right? But can you print in A4/A3 and get a good workable copy? At this stage I have no idea of what is planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 Which ultimately means those who want a printed backup should be able to print their own from an air services online source, right? But can you print in A4/A3 and get a good workable copy? At this stage I have no idea of what is planned. You can print sections from the electronic charts from OzRunways. Just centre it on the part you want at the zoom level that is appropriate and do a screen capture. Then (if you don't have air print) just email the pic to your desktop computer and print the image. I don't know if it would be regarded as a legal "chart" but if it's from a current chart, I can't see why not... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Printing your own strip map from the latest edition of OzRunways seems the best way to go- as long as the damned printer plays fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Do you guys know that AvPlan will be releasing an Android version in the next few weeks...it will sit nicely on my 12" Samsung Galaxy Note Pro where I can use the stylus on the screen and write what I want 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yenn Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 You can download ERSA from airservices, free. No need to get the full ERSA sent to you. Get what you want, les weight, less pages to trawl through and free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I have used AVplan, Ozrunways and AirNav VFR and they all give the capability (in one way or another ) of printing off the maps you are using if you want a hard copywhich I always do cos I'm just lucky enough to have my ipad fail ( it did recently - overheated and shut down for about 20 minutes. ) They all allow you to download the entire ERSA as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robert Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I have a scale marked on the ipad & fit the wac chart to that, save the file & email it to my computer. I open the map in Gimp ( i only use linux) check the scale & print with an A3 Epson printer. I print both sides in colour & on plain paper the detail is close to a standard chart. The print leaves 40mm clean paper top & bottom. I use that for my flight plan & fuel planning.. I mark the Ctaf changes on the flight plan with a thick fibre tipped pen .I fold it to A4 & its clipped to an A4 clipboard, This gives me all I need for a days flying. I give the I pad to my passenger if I have one & ask them to follow the flight on Oz Runways. Works easy & stress free for me. I know I have a back up & every thing to keep me safe & legal .If I have a passenger,it keeps them interested finding landmarks. I also have instant access to the I pad if I need it without having the clumsy unit in my space. If I need to make notes I do it on the map with the fibre pen. Its only for 1 trip so I dont have to worry about reuse. Worked really well on a round Aus trip. John Roberts 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 Like it, John. I keep refining my flight plan layout to include everything I need, even runways, but I'll be adopting your approach of combining plan and map. OzRunways is great, but a paper map adapted to each trip feels better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaba-who Posted June 18, 2014 Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm like you both (JR and OK). I like to have everything on the map so I am not opening books or other pages all the time especially in high workload areas. When I'm going to places I am unfamiliar with I do a small size print out of the ERSA picture of each airfield, cut it out and stick it on my map somewhere out if the way. Once I'm in the air I basically can work off one paper map and ipad without opening anything else. AVplan has a great advantage over every other app in that it will put FIA boundaries, CTA steps etc onto the WAC. But unfortunately its not very intuitive. I have to keep getting out the manual every time I go to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben87r Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I can't remember the last time I pulled out any hard copy! But I spend a thousand $ a year having to keep it up to date! Second ipad starting to look cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I just went to the second iPad (a mini) because of the cost. I really like having paper charts but the cost has become prohibitive. Planning a trip to Alice and then north and I need more than 25 charts to cover it...nearly $250. The mini cost me less than $400, and $80 pa to update my second Ozrunways subscription is cheap compared to replacing charts and ERSA every 6 months. Kaz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgmwa Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Do you guys know that AvPlan will be releasing an Android version in the next few weeks...it will sit nicely on my 12" Samsung Galaxy Note Pro where I can use the stylus on the screen and write what I want Does anybody know whether OzRunways is planning to do the same? rgmwa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinsm Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Do you guys know that AvPlan will be releasing an Android version in the next few weeks...it will sit nicely on my 12" Samsung Galaxy Note Pro where I can use the stylus on the screen and write what I want That should fill a huge hole in the market. Many people aren't enamoured with the apple style. Interested to see how mit travels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Robert Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The subscription to Oz runways plus the once only cost of about $ 250 for an A3 printer compared with the cost of maps all around Aus seemed like good value to me. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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