Garfly Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) In answer to SplitS's meme: Well, the proposition at the bottom, I think we'd all agree with. (Especially here in NSW) As to the question above it - assuming we mean THAT (so-called) billionaire: No, I don't, I wouldn't have a clue what to make of them. On the other hand, if a reputable team of investigative finance journalists could somehow be given a crack ... maybe. It could be interesting for US citizens to know that their president is more than 400 million dollars in debt to foreign lenders. It might even end up as a casus belli if he got another term. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/27/us/donald-trump-taxes.html BTW, that's a weird stock photo used as background to that meme. What could it mean? Edited October 17, 2020 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 hours ago, cscotthendry said: Michael Cohen laid out several crimes in front of the impeachment investigation. As for there not being any evidence ... Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and when we witness the extraordinary lengths Trump and the Republicans have gone to, to prevent ANY examination of his finances, it begs the question "why?". I don't know if he'll be charged for tax violations, but there are a multitude of other offences he has committed while in office and in the run up. Campaign finance violations: Payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal for a start. Then there's the mystery of the sudden $10 million in unaccountable funds that went into his 2016 campaign just before the election. Then there's the money he bragged about having LOTS of early on in this campaign, on the order of hundreds of millions, but now he claims his campaign is broke??? Emoluments clause of the Constitution: The constitution prohibits a sitting POTUS from receiving money from foreign entities and governments by any means. It's why presidents have always put their business interests at "arms length" during their terms in the presidency. Trump has steadfastly refused to do this and daily benefits from dignitaries and government officials staying in his resorts. He even tried to get the G7 meeting held at one of his resorts. He also tried to pressure the UK government to move the British Open golf tournament to his one of golf courses. Extortion: Trump tried to use foreign aid payments to an allied nation (Ukraine) as leverage to induce that government to create a smear against his main political rival. That he didn't succeed doesn't erase the crime. The attempt was a crime in and of itself. Possible espionage: Early on in his presidency, Trump divulged sensitive intelligence sourced from the Israelis, to Russian agents. This intelligence put the lives of soldiers and friendly agents in jeopardy and the Israelis were thoroughly pissed. During the 2016 campaign, Trump's campaign officials were in constant contact with Russian government agents. That is what started the Mueller investigation. Obama didn't start the investigation, the counter-intelligence unit of the FBI did that on their own because of the communications they were seeing between Trump's campaign people and the Russians. What we now know for sure is that NOTHING happens in Trump's orbit without Trump's knowledge and approval. Anything that does happen without his approval is grounds for instant dismissal, right down to not kissing Trump's orange arse enough. Crimes against humanity: So far 220,000 Americans have died from COVID 19. Trump was warned in February that the pandemic would be bad and Obama had left him a team and a plan to deal with such matters. Trump chose to a) Do nothing about it because he thought it would hinder the economy and hurt his reelection prospects, b) Warn investor friends who sold stock like the world was about to end, thereby avoiding losses (insider trading), c) actively subverting efforts to contain the spread of the virus by disbanding the team and ignoring the plans while hindering efforts to test for it and provide PPE for healthcare staff and patients. As a result, official SCIENTIFIC estimates are that nearly half of the deaths from the virus could have been prevented had he done what a president is supposed to do. He STILL refuses to wear a mask and holds super spreader rallies because he is narcissistic and craves the attention. This is only what we know for a fact now. Given the pathological dishonesty of Trump, I believe this is only the tiny tip of a very large iceberg and that it is why he's so protective of his finances. And finally, what we do know is that Trump is in debt to the tune of $421 million to "someone" but we don't know who. My bet is the Russians and the Saudis. That kind of debt is an instant dis-qualifier for anyone to obtain any type of security clearance at all, never mind having the nuclear launch codes. That is all apart from the nepotism, corruption, lies and malfeasance that has passed for his presidency. OK, Rant over. cscotthendry I see many claims though no actual evidence presented. Lawyer Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch has been doing some litigation in research of the Clinton corruption. Over seventy legal cases in all. This is what actual evidence looks like... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Found this... If Trump walks over the water the news headline will read “Trump Can’t Swim” 😆 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Trump is a lying cheating con man. He doesn't tell untruths he lies.........................................he has divided the US more, spewing hate and telling lies, he also lies. How can you lot defend him? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said: Lawyer Tom Fitton of Judicial Watch has been doing some litigation in research of the Clinton corruption. Over seventy legal cases in all. This is what actual evidence looks like... I can't believe we're having to fact check the likes of Breitbart and Judicial Watch here, of all places. IMHO you were right the first time about Trump, Flying Binghi. How come PPrune gets all the luck and all the wisdom. 😉 From Wikipedia: Judicial Watch (JW) is an American conservative activist group[1] that files Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuits to investigate claimed misconduct by government officials. Founded in 1994, JW has primarily targeted Democrats, in particular the Presidency of Bill Clinton, the Presidency of Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. The organization has described climate science as "fraud science" and has filed lawsuits against government climate scientists. JW has made numerous false and unsubstantiated claims that have been picked up by right-wing news outlets and promoted by conservative figures. President Donald Trump has repeatedly cited false claims by Judicial Watch about voter fraud. Courts have dismissed the vast majority of its lawsuits.[2] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplitS Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Trump is a symptom of the divide not the cause. How can you not support Trump given his track record for not starting wars and killing millions of civilians??? The choose is simple Slaughter of innocent or not. Men in men's toilets or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, SplitS said: The choose is simple Slaughter of innocent or not. Men in men's toilets or not. Firstly, the word is "choice". Sometimes, you have to amputate or remove the organ to get rid of the cancer. If the terrorists and jihadis who kill innocent civilians didn't hide amongst the civilian population there would be less collateral damage. ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Garfly said: I can't believe we're having to fact check the likes of Breitbart and Judicial Watch here, of all places. IMHO you were right the first time about Trump, Flying Binghi. How come PPrune gets all the luck and all the wisdom. 😉 From Wikipedia: Thankyou for the Dorothy Dixer Garfly I had forgotten about the long running Wikipedia corruption thread at pprune...🙂 “...Wikipedia was launched in January 2001 by Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger but was predated by an earlier Wales/Sanger project, Nupedia, also a free online encyclopaedia, but one that was written and peer-reviewed by experts. In its three-year life, Nupedia only produced 25 articles, with a further 74 in progress when it was shut down. The lesson learned from the Nupedia experiment was that this protracted process with meagre output would never produce a comprehensive and up-to-date online encyclopaedia. The experts and peer reviews would have to go. Wikipedia has been a massive success but has always had immense flaws, the greatest one being that nothing it publishes can be trusted. This, you might think, is a pretty big flaw. There are over 21million editors with varying degrees of competence and honesty. Rogue editors abound.....” https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/04/29/you-only-need-to-read-a-few-climate-entries-on-wikipedia-to-know-this-spiked-online-article-rings-true/ Edited October 17, 2020 by Flying Binghi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, SplitS said: Trump is a symptom of the divide not the cause. How can you not support Trump given his track record for not starting wars and killing millions of civilians??? The choose is simple Slaughter of innocent or not. Men in men's toilets or not. Well. I for one, am with you in your hatred of war and the slaughter of innocents, SplitS. I just don't think that Trump is deserving of your support on that basis. (Though it's true he does seem to be a bit war shy, and maybe we should be grateful for that). He hasn't really been tempted much on the matter of war and peace (thank goodness) but I do fear that he'd be capable of anything if he saw personal advantage in it. (What his administration did to those Mexican kids on the border gives us a clue.) I'm pretty sure he'd have seized his military moment with gusto if a suitable one had come up. (Though he'd quickly have found himself out of his depth in that situation as in everything else.) I really liked Sully's TV ad for The Lincoln Project but I'm a bit regretful that this thread started up again. It's now generating way more heat than light. Anyway, happy flying! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, Garfly said: (What his administration did to those Mexican kids on the border gives us a clue.) I've seen a report, by a strong Trump supporter, claiming that "They weren't sure they were the parents of those kids, and took them because the believed the kids were being sold into the pedo sex trade." He also made lots of claims of miraculous, incredible, wonderful achievements since Trump took office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty_d Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 If a Trump supporter told me that the sky was blue, I'd stick my head outside to look. The fact that they could support such a scumbag raises questions about their judgement in every aspect of life. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red750 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Here is less than half of the quote forwarded to me as referred to above, in reply to a common reference to Trump as The Buffoon in the White House. THE BUFFOON IN THE WHITE HOUSE. The buffoon in the White House just brokered two Middle East Peace Accords, something that 71 years of political intervention and endless war failed to produce. The buffoon in the White House is the first president who has not engaged us in a foreign war since Eisenhower. The buffoon in the White House has had the greatest impact on the economy, bringing jobs, and lowering unemployment to the Black and Latino population of ANY other president. Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or have you forgotten?!? The buffoon in the White House has exposed the deep, widespread, and long-standing corruption in the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and the Republican and Democratic parties!!!! ALL the government agencies!!! President Trump is an equal opportunity exposer! The buffoon in the White House turned NATO around and had them start paying their dues. Hello!?!?!!!!! Why hasn’t this been done before???? Only the US and Greece have been paying their fair share! The buffoon in the White House neutralized the North Koreans, stopped them from developing a further nuclear capability, sending missiles toward Japan, and threatening the West Coast of the US. Every other President has been afraid of North Korea and has believed their bluff! The Buffoon in the White House turned our relationship with the Chinese around, brought hundreds of businesses back to the US, and revived the economy. Finally!!!!!!! The buffoon in the White House has accomplished the appointing of two Supreme Court Justices and close to 300 Federal Judges. The buffoon in the White House lowered your taxes and caused your stock market to move to record levels over 100 times, positively impacting the retirements of tens of millions of citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Garfly said: ...I'm a bit regretful that this thread started up again. It's now generating way more heat than light... The request for actual evidence is “heat”........ Garfly, things not going as expected ?..😉 Some more on the corruption of Wikipedia... Here is some comments from one of Wikipedia’s main ‘editors’. Apparently juvenile name calling is OK if the other person is deemed to be on the wrong ‘side’..... “...They find it offensive? So what? I find their existence offensive, but I don’t expect them to do anything about it. They exist, I am offended, end of story. And they? People call them deniers, they are offended, end of story? No, they keep whining that people recognize them for what they are. They are still deniers. It is the correct term used for such people. It is the term used in reliable sources. —Hob Gadling (talk) 11:49, 12 July 2020 (UTC)...” https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/12/climate-wars-try-removing-the-word-denier-from-a-wikipedia-entry/ Edited October 17, 2020 by Flying Binghi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 14 hours ago, Flying Binghi said: cscotthendry I see many claims though no actual evidence presented. "Living is easy with eyes closed," "Misunderstanding all you see..." Apologies to Lennon and McCartney. Re-read my post about WHY "no evidence" has been uncovered ... yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man emu Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 10 hours ago, red750 said: Trump as The Buffoon in the White House It is an impressive list, probably facilitated by his Party's control of the Senate and Congress which earlier Presidents did not have. He certainly does care to back pedal if he gets an idea. True, some of his ideas divert from the status quo, but at least he expresses his ideas. I wonder if he really cares what the electorate thinks of him. He's got the reins and is whipping the horses. It is a shame that his management style falls into the Management by Crisis category, and he makes the crises. One could compare him to Hitler, leaving out the blatant racism of Hitler. Both were charismatic, or forcefully projected themselves to the electorate. Both had social agenda, but Hitler had documented his agenda in the early days. If Trump had prepared a long term plan, he might have been more popular. We focus on his dismantling of Obamacare, and think of it in terms of Australia's Medicare or Britain's NHS, but what we forget is that the Americans have a different mindset when it comes to social security matters. That mindset is that the USA is the land of opportunity, and if you don't strive to make the most of your opportunities, your poor life is your own fault. While the Americans applaud philanthropy at all levels, they don't want to be required to make regular payments from their own pockets to support a social security system similar to ours or many other countries. To them, that smacks of Socialism, or worse, Communism. The other thing we should look at is the way the opposition media treats him. They are the ones who label him a buffoon, but do they ever report favourably on what good he may have done? I still don't like him to be President, mainly due to his erratic outbursts, but he has definitely changed the style of the Presidency. If he loses, he might well be the developer of American Civil War Ver 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Student Pilot Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octave Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 On 17/10/2020 at 8:44 AM, SplitS said: Nothing else really matters. Just an observation on the quality of the information of this meme, I not that first on the Obama list is operation Ocean Shield. This was a NATO led operation to protect shipping from piracy in African waters. Should this be considered in a list of wars? An as for the other side I can see no mention of Trumps bombing of Syria or the drone attack's that continue. I would anticipate that if I could be bothered checking other items in these lists and it is difficult as this list is reproduced at a size that is difficult to even read. Wherever information comes from it is so important to look for supporting evidence. Far too many people on all sides regard information that supports their gut feeling to be true and anything contrary to be false, 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, octave said: Wherever information comes from it is so important to look for supporting evidence. Far too many people on all sides regard information that supports their gut feeling to be true and anything contrary to be false, Exactly. Below is a fact check on an earlier version of the "Buffoon in the White House" meme. The updated one, quoted above, is now doing the rounds of right wing sites everywhere. To accept such a "list of accomplishments" at face value - as if from a reputable, verifiable source - is just asking to be misled. Misleading List of Trump's Accomplishments Spreads on Social Media. A post shared thousands of times on Facebook lists nine alleged achievements credited to President Donald Trump. Three of the claims are true, while claims about vaccination, a bill proposing funding for contact tracing, defunding the World Health Organization and the president's executive orders are false or misleading. https://factcheck.afp.com/misleading-list-trumps-achievements-spreads-social-media Edited October 18, 2020 by Garfly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, old man emu said: ...but what we forget is that the Americans have a different mindset when it comes to social security matters. That mindset is that the USA is the land of opportunity, and if you don't strive to make the most of your opportunities, your poor life is your own fault. While the Americans applaud philanthropy at all levels, they don't want to be required to make regular payments from their own pockets to support a social security system similar to ours or many other countries. To them, that smacks of Socialism, or worse, Communism... What those people fail to realize is that their “land of opportunity” was built on government services paid for by taxes. The super rich needed the underfunded public education system to provide employees and a mass market for their products, the roads, pipelines, water supplies and drains their comfy lifestyle depends on. Taxes pay for the legal system that protect the rich from America’s increasing numbers of dispossessed and desperate poor. Across America and across the world, wherever people aren’t paying taxes you find run-down services, decay and poverty. Kerry Packer and the rest of the tax-dodging class would be in real trouble if the rest of stopped paying our taxes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfly Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 For anyone interested, this is a BBC radio program broadcast today: Disinfo wars and the all-American 'troll farm'. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cszvsd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Student Pilot said: Um, No. Without Spray Tan or hair Trump is still the President..... or do somebody think personal appearance denotes ability’s ? I don’t think the Democrat who drew up this cartoon, or what-ever yer call it, thought it though. Perhaps we should look at some of the female democrat senators and see what they look like with-out the ‘make-up’ and hair styling. Weren’t It 80 year old Nancy Pelosi who got caught out at the hair dresser not wearing a china virus mask...😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Binghi Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Old Koreelah said: What those people fail to realize is that their “land of opportunity” was built on government services paid for by taxes. The super rich needed the underfunded public education system to provide employees and a mass market for their products, the roads, pipelines, water supplies and drains their comfy lifestyle depends on. Taxes pay for the legal system that protect the rich from America’s increasing numbers of dispossessed and desperate poor. Across America and across the world, wherever people aren’t paying taxes you find run-down services, decay and poverty. Kerry Packer and the rest of the tax-dodging class would be in real trouble if the rest of stopped paying our taxes. Hmmm... Then how do you explain all the incredibly wealthy people in China ? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Koreelah Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Flying Binghi said: Hmmm... Then how do you explain all the incredibly wealthy people in China ? . Their wealth has been built on rapidly-expanding manufacturing which is based on education, services and administration infrastructure built and paid for by government. Show me ANY place that propers without sufficient government-provided services- all of which depend on taxation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onetrack Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 (edited) China's wealth has been built on exceptionally low wages that no Westerner would ever accept. In addition, the Chinese have blatantly stolen every Western technological patent, idea, or product, refusing to recognise patents and registered designs and trademarks, and actively indulging in Western industrial espionage - on a constant basis. In addition, it's reported that China's impressive leap in wealth is led by around 200,000, tertiary-qualified, Western-educated Chinese, who are exceptionally fluent in both English and Chinese, and who understand Western technology and manufacturing systems thoroughly. Add in the hundreds of American and European manufacturers - from RR to VW to Caterpillar - who have gleefully jumped into Chinese manufacturing, all the while complying with Chinese Govt requests to hand over all their technology and trade secrets - while the Chinese Govt ensures that these companies can never hold more than 50% of any Chinese corporate venture - and you have a recipe for total and rapid success. As to Trumps claims for major economic success, it is widely recognised that U.S. Presidents actually have little impact on U.S. economic success and general wealth - because they do not directly control markets and the economy, and do not directly control corporate decision-making. And any steps the U.S. President takes to encourage economic directions or benefits, usually don't appear for a considerable period after his decisions are made (up to a couple of years) due to the lags in implementation, manufacturing lags, and slow and conservative decision-making, in corporate boardrooms. It's interesting to see though, that the greatest leaps in U.S. wealth and productivity, have always been the periods when they were right into full-on wars. The American economy runs on armaments, defence projects and U.S. Navy shipbuilding. Trump has stated he intends to upgrade Americas defences, which means a huge increase in Defence expenditure and a major increase in Warship construction - both of which are proceeding at speed. The U.S. Navy currently has 296 (large hull) ships and submarines (490 ships in total). They are projecting a fleet of 355 large hull ships by 2034, and they want another 90 new ships in total by that date. The Americans are fearful of the size of the Chinese Navy and don't want to become outnumbered in military shipping. There has been a decrease of 19 F-35B's and 1 aircraft carrier in the new military orders, but that slight reduction is being made up by vastly increased expenditure in the Naval areas overall. The U.S. Navy budget is up 33% for 2020, as compared to 2019. As with the Reagan era, Trump is maxxing Uncle Sams credit card - and Reagan's spending like a drunken sailor in the 1980's, is what has left the U.S. with a record budget deficit that won't go away. Between 1980 and 1990, the U.S. national deficit tripled to US$220 billion. When Reagan left office, the U.S. owed more to foreigners than it was owed, and the country moved from being the world's largest international creditor, to the world's largest debtor nation. Trump is on a similar path to Reagan. Trump is a warmonger, make no mistake about that. However, he's crafty enough to not actually start any foreign wars - but he's arming up America in a fashion similar to the U.S. military buildup in 1940 and 1941. He is preparing for War with China, exactly as America prepared for War with Japan from around 1935. https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/maritime-antisub/6571-us-must-increase-shipbuilding-to-keep-up-with-competitors-us-senator https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/maritime-antisub/6571-us-must-increase-shipbuilding-to-keep-up-with-competitors-us-senator Edited October 18, 2020 by onetrack 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SplitS Posted October 18, 2020 Share Posted October 18, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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