Two helicopters collide on the Gold Coast 02/01/23

[Flightrite]

The ingredients for a disaster cake are: single pilot, high pressure commercial operation, multiple distractions at critical times & complex flying machines…..add ingredients slowly and wait…..another cake will form one day, guaranteed! It’s human nature to er and there’s nothing you can do to eliminate it!

[flying dog]

That is but ONE of the MANY recipes.

 

I feel as good as it is: it is an oversimplification of things.

[Garfly]

Yes, to err is human; to minimise tragedy is the job of Aviation Safety organisations.

For over a century they've done a pretty good job, working on the assumption that something can be done; even with humans.

[facthunter]

 Just the same "Everybody makes mistakes " doesn't cut it with aviation. The system has to be designed to pick things up by requiring a second system or information source. Double check. Aviation is too unforgiving of error or omission. Nev

[Garfly]

 

 

"THE FIRST WE KNEW ABOUT THAT AIRCRAFT WAS WHEN ITS NOSE APPEARED IN THE TOP OF OUR WINDSCREEN, SLOWLY OVERTAKING US AND GRADUALLY DESCENDING."

 

https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2023/03/too-close-for-comfort/

[kgwilson]

No mention of any radio calls made from either aircraft.

[Garfly]

Yeah, but I gather it was an issue of being on the wrong frequency at the wrong time.

 

"When I look back on the incident, I wonder what more I could, or should, have done to prevent it from even happening. 

Lessons learnt: Perhaps if I had listened out on the Brisbane Centre frequency as well as the Archerfield Tower frequency during our direct track to Park Ridge, we may have been alerted to the presence of the twin.

As it turned out, the only things that saved us from a mid-air collision on that day were pure luck and a sliver of time" 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Garfly

[cooperplace]

Just when I thought people couldn't get any lower:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-31/qld-sea-world-chopper-pilot-ashley-jenkinson-traffic-fine-fraud/102169718

[Student Pilot]

On 18/3/2023 at 1:14 PM, Garfly said:

Yeah, but I gather it was an issue of being on the wrong frequency at the wrong time.

 

"When I look back on the incident, I wonder what more I could, or should, have done to prevent it from even happening. 

Lessons learnt: Perhaps if I had listened out on the Brisbane Centre frequency as well as the Archerfield Tower frequency during our direct track to Park Ridge, we may have been alerted to the presence of the twin.

As it turned out, the only things that saved us from a mid-air collision on that day were pure luck and a sliver of time" 

 

 

 

 

Too many frequencies can distract, you would think there would only be one frequency priority close to the helipad.

[Garfly]

12 minutes ago, Student Pilot said:

Too many frequencies can distract, you would think there would only be one frequency priority close to the helipad.

Yes, I reckon that'd be the case, SP but in that post I was referring to an Archerfield near-miss story in the latest Flight Safety Australia mag:

 

https://www.flightsafetyaustralia.com/2023/03/too-close-for-comfort/

[Student Pilot]

My bad Captain Gazza, If a thread goes any more than 2 pages I loose focus 😆

[Garfly]

Yet you can spread tonnes of Super all day long up and down countless acres and not for a second take your mind off the job. 

Go figure!   ;- )

[kgwilson]

Any more than a second and you'd be toast. I went for a ride with a Cresco pilot from my neighbours strip in NZ. The skill and concentration almost unbelievable. Takeoff downwind down a 30 deg slope, under high tension 300 kva power lines with a tonne or more of Super, up & over the ridge, go almost weightless, nose down about 30 ft altitude spread the load, 90 deg bank turn, back under the power lines, land up the hill, turn around & open the hatch for the next load. Total time 2.5 minutes.

[flying dog]

Sorry to digress but as "to many frequencies" is/was mentioned:

 

I was riding "shotgun" on a trip and we stopped in Moree.   We stopped off to get fuel.

There had been a problem happen with heavy rain the night before and the plane wasn't in a good way.

 

Did the fuel check and started the engine.

The active runway at the time was the north one.   There was a LOT of traffic as it was the end of a fly-in happening near bye also.

 

"Bah, I'll take off southbound." was the PIC's attitude.

As we took off we nearly hit a plane landing on the northbound runway.

 

The idiot pilot on the plane didn't bother CHECKING the frequency of the radio.

Yeah, ok, when we came/went into Moree it was on the right frequency and all we did was shut down and power up.

 

But given the plane had electrical problems:  that is something that should have been DOUBLE checked.

The fact that the frequency was QUIET AS......   Should have been enough of a warning that it wasn't on the right frequency.

With all the planes you would expect to hear SOMETHING.   But it was quite and the PIC just decided to ......  "Ah, I've broadcasted.  That's my part done."   Is a rather pathetic mind set.

 

So I think that as much as it is annoying having too many people talking on the frequency - another story - people should learn to WAIT THEIR TURN.

And given this was "the normal" for the pilots......   It doesn't hold much credibility for me.

(Just saying)

[derekliston]

As usual now, major thread drift, but just to add to the radio stuff. I think that my local council has decreased the safety at my local airfield, Warwick! How? I hear you ask. Well they started to use Avdata to collect landing fees and now half of the incoming traffic make no radio calls. I realise there is no legal requirement to broadcast if you hear no radio traffic, but if two or more pilots have the same mindset, you have the potential for disaster!

[kgwilson]

Charging landing fees on the basis of radio calls is flawed as 1, it encourages piloots not to call and 2, pilots can provide any call sign other than their own. Cameras on the taxiway or runway will get the correct rego. Still not perfect but better.

[Student Pilot]

46 minutes ago, kgwilson said:

Charging landing fees on the basis of radio calls is flawed as 1, it encourages pilots not to call and 2, pilots can provide any call sign other than their own. Cameras on the taxiway or runway will get the correct rego. Still not perfect but better.

The answer is no landing fees, the main income is for the parasitic avadata. The income that the councils get after avdata take their percentage (Anybody know what that is?) would be buggar all.

[johnm]

re AVDATA - Council's logic would be money ! - some money is better than none 

[RossK]

15 minutes ago, Arron25 said:

But Boat ramps are free...

Funded by boat licences and boat registration fees.

How much do CASA charge for licences and VH rego ? 

[Blueadventures]

1 minute ago, RossK said:

Funded by boat licences and boat registration fees.

How much do CASA charge for licences and VH rego ? 

Agree and boat trailer registrations.

[facthunter]

You can't opt out of the avdata system. It invites dangerous actions and it's a great effort to  PROVE you were not flying your Piper Cub at Perth International even when the engine was out of it at the time. AVDATA is a deterrent to participating in Aviation. For it to be applied YOUR agreement should be required. IE IF you have to PAY you must have a say.  LAZY Councils who subject users to this probably illegal system should be taken to court.  Just getting "SOME"money doesn't justify a thrid party being involved with  a charge  system they wish to secure to your detriment without your express approval. Nev

Edited April 4, 2023 by facthunter

[turboplanner]

That's hilarious. Try 12 in a circuit all using correct terminology if you want to fly in to the cities. I've been up to No 5 on final, 3 got down, 2 went round. You need to be up to the task.

Edited April 4, 2023 by turboplanner

[Garfly]

15 minutes ago, turboplanner said:

That's hilarious. Try 12 in a circuit all using correct terminology if you want to fly in to the cities. I've been up to No 5 on final, 3 got down, 2 went round. You need to be up to the task.

That's heroic.  But we're discussing here the case of just two professional PICs, each more than 'up to the task', colliding mid-air in G-space, due insufficient awareness of each other (at the Gold Coast, as at Mangalore and Ketchikan, Alaska) and the conclusions of safety boards that readily available tech should alleviate the danger. 

 

That was the point. Not trying to be funny.

 

 

[facthunter]

If 40% had to go around that is hardly satisfactory either because they still clutter up the circuit because they still have to land..  Nev

[Garfly]

 

I believe what Turbs found hilarious was my suggestion in a post (on p.4)

that this level of (uncontrolled) terminal congestion could be worrisome.

 

 

 

Which I posted in response to Thruster88's comment (on p.3):

 

"Imagine you are inbound to this airport. How many radio calls would it take to get situational awareness

versus what can be seen in a few seconds on a screen. The future is here, we just all have to get on board. " 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Garfly